Louisiana Officials Possible Strike?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Naw, he was just petting you, rubbing your ears, patting your tummy and saying "good doggie". And by golly, it worked, didn't it?.

Right. So you would have just snatched the check from his hand, said "Thanks for nothing, you tightwad so and so," and walked out. Nobody is gonna rub your ears and pat your tummy.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Nobody is gonna rub your ears and pat your tummy.

In place of giving me more than one small pay raise in the last 21 years? I'd have to say that you're completely correct in saying that I wouldn't be purring like you, JAR.

[Judtech]

Since when do people get criticized for keeping their word? This makes no sense to me.
JAR is keeping his word and the part of his bargain with his association and the LHSAA. The fact that the LHSAA is not doing the same is not really his problem at the moment. Two wrongs don't make a right. Everythng else is just an example of people trying to justify their behavior. You don't need to justify doing what you said you would do.
I respect JAR sticking to his guns during this difficult time and wish more people would honor their words like him, the world would be a much better place

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Since when do people get criticized for keeping their word? This makes no sense to me.
JAR is keeping his word and the part of his bargain with his association and the LHSAA. The fact that the LHSAA is not doing the same is not really his problem at the moment. Two wrongs don't make a right. Everythng else is just an example of people trying to justify their behavior. You don't need to justify doing what you said you would do.
I respect JAR sticking to his guns during this difficult time and wish more people would honor their words like him, the world would be a much better place

It's fine if he wants to keep his association's bargain -- that's a personal choice. What's slimy is that their association doesn't even hesitate in keeping OTHER association's bargains even though they have no reason to do so.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's fine if he wants to keep his association's bargain -- that's a personal choice. What's slimy is that their association doesn't even hesitate in keeping OTHER association's bargains even though they have no reason to do so.

I will agree with you that is a point that can be debated. And to be honest I am about 50-50 on it. Do you fill in when others fail to do what they are contracted to do? Or do you just let both parties sink or swim? I can see both sides of that argument. 1) We will fill in for the "good of the game" or 2) I am only doing what I am contractually obligated to do and no more. IMO, either way is fine b/c the rubber doesn't hit the road until the new contract and/or the next season.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I will agree with you that is a point that can be debated. And to be honest I am about 50-50 on it. Do you fill in when others fail to do what they are contracted to do? Or do you just let both parties sink or swim? I can see both sides of that argument. 1) We will fill in for the "good of the game" or 2) I am only doing what I am contractually obligated to do and no more. IMO, either way is fine b/c the rubber doesn't hit the road until the new contract and/or the next season.

It's one thing to fill in for a neighboring association when they simply get overwhelmed with games. But that's not what happened here. This is one group essentially telling the schools not to worry about this little dispute because they'll step up and fill in the gap.
Again, if they actually get a raise, it'll be in spite of the sh1tty behavior of jar's association. If they don't get a raise, it'll be largely because of the guys who didn't think it was important enough to take a small risk.

[Rich]

I just don't see the risk, personally. In that position, I'd not work, I'm sure of it. What is there to lose, $31 a game? And for those who say, "think of the children," that just presupposes that those of us that officiate do it for the children. Big assumption to make.

I enjoy officiating, but I'd never cross this line. I'd pack the stuff up for the year and enjoy a few more nights at home with the family.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's one thing to fill in for a neighboring association when they simply get overwhelmed with games. But that's not what happened here. This is one group essentially telling the schools not to worry about this little dispute because they'll step up and fill in the gap.
Again, if they actually get a raise, it'll be in spite of the sh1tty behavior of jar's association. If they don't get a raise, it'll be largely because of the guys who didn't think it was important enough to take a small risk.

I can see that argument. But, and this is a point made by both JAR and RICH, how many people ACTUALLY left. I am assuming there are more than 7 assocations in LA ( I could be wrong) and only 4 walked. so since less than 1/2 of the associations walked, the 'majority' didn't support that action.
If the schools come up with a low offer and the majority of the associations decide NOT to sign on, and someone crosses, then I have an issue. Again, I think the Associations hold most of the cards here, but for the next contract, not this one.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's fine if he wants to keep his association's bargain -- that's a personal choice. What's slimy is that their association doesn't even hesitate in keeping OTHER association's bargains even though they have no reason to do so.

I see one reason as damage control. Unless something changes, when the "tweaked" proposal comes to a vote again, it will not separate who honored the previous agreement and who didn't. The longer the delay, the more trouble it would have been for the other side, the more potential bad blood, the more chance they would vote against the raise next time.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The longer the delay, the more trouble it would have been for the other side, the more potential bad blood, the more chance they would vote against the raise next time.

Man, they really have you scared, don't they? If all the LA officials were like you, it would be another 21 years before they'd even ask for a raise.

I sincerely hope that your association...and yourself.....aren't two-faced enough to accept a raise if one is given by the LHSSAA. Stick to your principles and refuse those ill-gotten gains made by others that you're so dead against. After all, it's not like you've risked one damn thing to make things better for officials in LA, is it?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

After all, it's not like you've risked one damn thing to make things better for officials in LA, is it?

What did I have to risk?

[Judtech]

"Ill gotten gains"? Seriously? Since when is a negotiated contract ill gotten?

Which is being two face:
a) Agreeing to a contract and then before the contract expires, saying that the contract is insufficient and fail to live up to your end of the bargain
or
b) Fulfilling your contract and negtiating for a better one when the current one expires?

If enough officials decide not to work for those new wages, does that make those who do evil? If someone is willing to work for the wages being offered why demonize them?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I see one reason as damage control. Unless something changes, when the "tweaked" proposal comes to a vote again, it will not separate who honored the previous agreement and who didn't. The longer the delay, the more trouble it would have been for the other side, the more potential bad blood, the more chance they would vote against the raise next time.

The best thing that could happen long-term would be that the raise gets voted down and everyone walks next season. Then when you go work anyway, I'm sure you'd have a "good" reason. Otherwise I'd expect that everyone will get $2 or some ridiculous amount and the principals will act like they're being generous.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The best thing that could happen long-term would be that the raise gets voted down and everyone walks next season. Then when you go work anyway, I'm sure you'd have a "good" reason. Otherwise I'd expect that everyone will get $2 or some ridiculous amount.

Lot of difference between "everyone" walking and what we had here. What if one crew in our association had decided not to work on Tuesday, should the rest of us have refused to take their game?

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I see one reason as damage control. Unless something changes, when the "tweaked" proposal comes to a vote again, it will not separate who honored the previous agreement and who didn't. The longer the delay, the more trouble it would have been for the other side, the more potential bad blood, the more chance they would vote against the raise next time.

I have a lot of sympathy for the idea that you should honor the contract.

But here is the thing - they've been doing that for 21 years, and what have they gotten out of it? The lowest pay in the country, right?

I cannot possibly agree with your conclusion that the work stoppage could result in "the more chance they would vote against it next year". Seems to me that the last 21 years made it pretty clear that if things just go on as normal, there is basically zero change of it being passed "next time". After all, the last 20 "next times" saw no votes every time - why would you assume that the next "next time" would be different from the previous ones, as long as everyone just did the exact same thing?

Doing the same thing while expecting different results is not generally consider the mark of rational thinking.

I don't like the idea of people not honoring their contracts - on the other hand, desperate times and all that. It seems to me that it was pretty clear that if the officials did nothing, then they would have another year being paid a pittance, and the principals would laugh while they voted down yet another raise.

If in fact you get a raise this year, you have to assume that it came about as a result of the work stoppage, or at least the media attention it caused. After all, there was no work stoppage for 20 years, and they never gave you a raise.