Tumbling/traveling

[Amesman]

Looking for some advice on better sorting out when to whistle for traveling and when it's OK regarding a player going to the ground "with" the ball. Had a partner tell me he would have called one a travel Friday night, but then again, this was a guy who called a couple of fouls in the lane from the backcourt FT line when he was trail (2-whistle) and apparently tired of moving.

But he might have been right about the incident I refer to.

Loose ball rebound gets tipped several times until A1 sort of dives to corral it at the free throw line extended, near the sideline. I believe he went horizontal to grab it and granted him a TO while he was down, as he was getting converged on by defenders. (Turning over while on the ground was not at issue here.)

The catch: He might have first touched the ball by lurching at it with a wild dribble or two before diving after his "fumble" to gain full control. Does that matter?

It seems I get a play ever now and then when a youngster finally gets a loose rebound from a wild scrum while on the way to the ground (i.e. not receiving it fully standing up and tumbling, or then putting a knee to the ground). What's the judgment with this? It seems interpreting what's a fumble situation is key. Is it?

For me, this has become like one of those bad spelling words where I forget if I'm remembering how to spell it or NOT to spell it. Thanks.

[jdw3018]

All that matters is when is the ball held? In your first scenario, it doesn't sound like the ball was held by the player until he was on the floor. If so, legal.

In the second scenario, if a player secures the ball in the air and then goes to the floor, travel.

[just another ref]

When in doubt, I consider the player to have gained control after he was already on the floor. No travel unless he attempts to stand.

[Adam]

I've called this travel a few times. If he catches the ball airborne and lands on anything other than his feet, it's a travel. Whether it was a fumble, dribble, pass, or rebound (or anything else) doesn't really matter.

As jar noted, when in doubt, play on (a generally good philosophy anyway).

[Loudwhistle]

How about this: a player is falling down, after their hip hits the floor, the ball bounces into their hands, they go all the way to the floor. All of this happens kind of like a tree falling in the forest. Hip hits, ball is caught, shoulder slams into floor. Travel?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

How about this: a player is falling down, after their hip hits the floor, the ball bounces into their hands, they go all the way to the floor. All of this happens kind of like a tree falling in the forest. Hip hits, ball is caught, shoulder slams into floor. Travel?

In real time, this would be too close to call. Even in slow motion, I've got nothing. With the hip down, he's good to slide and land however is natural.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

How about this: a player is falling down, after their hip hits the floor, the ball bounces into their hands, they go all the way to the floor. All of this happens kind of like a tree falling in the forest. Hip hits, ball is caught, shoulder slams into floor. Travel?

It's a travel to touch the ground with anything other than the foot / hand after holding the ball. Since the player already had the hip on the floor, he can't travel by gathering the ball and touching the floor with other the shoulder / arm / leg, etc.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by loudwhistle

how about this: A player is falling down, after their hip hits the floor, the ball bounces into their hands, they go all the way to the floor. All of this happens kind of like a tree falling in the forest. Hip hits, ball is caught, shoulder slams into floor. Travel?

.... Yes!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

How about this: a player is falling down, after their hip hits the floor, the ball bounces into their hands, they go all the way to the floor. All of this happens kind of like a tree falling in the forest. Hip hits, ball is caught, shoulder slams into floor. Travel?

Unless it is extremely clear that the player had possession before he hit the ground, let this go. And this would be the same in my opinion when it comes to establishing a pivot foot. Possession as to be clear before I say that has been established.

Peace

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's a travel to touch the ground with anything other than the foot / hand after holding the ball. Since the player already had the hip on the floor, he can't travel by gathering the ball and touching the floor with other the shoulder / arm / leg, etc.

That underlined part is my hang up, I saw the hip as being the "pivot" but I can't find where it says that the hip can be a pivot, but I know a player can sit up with the ball while laying flat on their back and its not traveling, so it made me think that this isn't traveling since the hip hit first then the ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

That underlined part is my hang up, I saw the hip as being the "pivot" but I can't find where it says that the hip can be a pivot, but I know a player can sit up with the ball while laying flat on their back and its not traveling, so it made me think that this isn't traveling since the hip hit first then the ball.

You cannot find anything because there is no such thing. Do not try to make a rule out of what you "think" is a definition.

Peace

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In real time, this would be too close to call. Even in slow motion, I've got nothing. With the hip down, he's good to slide and land however is natural.

Agree,
I passed on it, my partner called traveling.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

That underlined part is my hang up, I saw the hip as being the "pivot" but I can't find where it says that the hip can be a pivot, but I know a player can sit up with the ball while laying flat on their back and its not traveling, so it made me think that this isn't traveling since the hip hit first then the ball.

Nothing but a foot can be a pivot, in spite of some cute jokes to the contrary.
Something other that hand or foot touching when player gains control, no travel unless player attempts to get up. What constitutes an attempt to get up is a bit of a gray area. Use your best judgment.