Whacked Home Coach.......Probably not deserved.....

[freddie_g2001]

Situation is this: Worked a big Rival 5A double header last night with two very good Officials. Very competitive game although one team was ranked in the top 8 in the state. (Home team) Gym is loud as it has a very good crowd. Home team misses a shot and as I'm running up the floor to be the new Lead, Home Coach Runs the sideline in my direction and Says "DAMN IT", and I Wacked him. After the gym erupted, I went to report my Technical, and the home coach said, "I was talking to my player. (I said Damn It Andre) I believe he really was talking to his player but the fact that he ran in my direction and the gym saw it, it gave the appearance that he was yelling at me. Right or wrong, I stuck with my technical. If he hadn't of cursed in my direction, It could have been avoided. I actually thought I should not have whacked him but It is what it is. I'd appreciate any input on what you think.......Should I have or not? Thanks for your input in advance...freddie_g2001

[stir22]

this forum, and threads like this are invaluable to us new folks who are still trying to figure out where our "line" is. i'm not qualified to answer your question, but i'd like to pose a follow-up...are t's, once given, ever withdrawn after an explanation from the player/coach?

/thanks

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by freddie_g2001

Situation is this: Worked a big Rival 5A double header last night with two very good Officials. Very competitive game although one team was ranked in the top 8 in the state. (Home team) Gym is loud as it has a very good crowd. Home team misses a shot and as I'm running up the floor to be the new Lead, Home Coach Runs the sideline in my direction and Says "DAMN IT", and I Wacked him. After the gym erupted, I went to report my Technical, and the home coach said, "I was talking to my player. (I said Damn It Andre) I believe he really was talking to his player but the fact that he ran in my direction and the gym saw it, it gave the appearance that he was yelling at me. Right or wrong, I stuck with my technical. If he hadn't of cursed in my direction, It could have been avoided. I actually thought I should not have whacked him but It is what it is. I'd appreciate any input on what you think.......Should I have or not? Thanks for your input in advance...freddie_g2001

I wouldn't have whacked him for that, especially if he had not been a problem up to that point, and especially if he was talking to his player. I'm all for penalizing coaches for their behavior if need be, but don't get rabbit ears. To me, "damnit" isn't even cursing.

[stosh]

Using profane or inappropriate language is enough for a T, by rule, regardless of how it is directed. For me "DAMN IT" is probably not enough unless I'm sure it's directed to me or my partners. Harsher language, even directed at players, would get me to address it especially if it loud enough for me to hear it.

[Rich]

As I always say, what's profane? These threads always amuse me. There are some who will whack without a second thought someone who screams out "Jesus Christ!" I'm not religious and I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

It comes down to this -- it appears that we are very inconsistent in this area because we are. What's profanity to you isn't profanity to me. And quite frankly, said quietly, I'm not very concerned by any of it unless it's directly at me.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by freddie_g2001

Situation is this: Worked a big Rival 5A double header last night with two very good Officials. Very competitive game although one team was ranked in the top 8 in the state. (Home team) Gym is loud as it has a very good crowd. Home team misses a shot and as I'm running up the floor to be the new Lead, Home Coach Runs the sideline in my direction and Says "DAMN IT", and I Wacked him. After the gym erupted, I went to report my Technical, and the home coach said, "I was talking to my player. (I said Damn It Andre) I believe he really was talking to his player but the fact that he ran in my direction and the gym saw it, it gave the appearance that he was yelling at me. Right or wrong, I stuck with my technical. If he hadn't of cursed in my direction, It could have been avoided. I actually thought I should not have whacked him but It is what it is. I'd appreciate any input on what you think.......Should I have or not? Thanks for your input in advance...freddie_g2001

I've got nothing.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

There are some who will whack without a second thought someone who screams out "Jesus Christ!" I'm not religious and I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

I whacked a coach in a youth game for this and would do it again. But it was also in response to a travel my partner called. A high school game I am more apt to let it pass.

[VaTerp]

Yeah, sounds like a case of rabbit ears. To me, "damn it" is not cursing. And if he didnt add anything after that then how could you be sure he was directing it toward you?

You say he was running the sideline in your direction but presuming that you're watching the players on the court and not the coach, how do you know he was running "at" you.

In a situation like this I might glance over at the coach if I hear some language to see if he really is adressing me. But again, "damn it" followed by nothing else is really not a big deal to me.

IMO, you jumped the gun here and were way too quick to issue a T without being fully aware of what was going on. Another reminder of why it's always good to slow down mentally, even when caught in transitioning from trail to lead.

[26 Year Gap]

Once you have issued the T in that situation, it stays. You can't unscramble eggs. Don't let the "I was talking to my player" mantra get in the way. If his player was further away than you, and he said it loud enough for his player to hear, then it was loud enough to be heard in the stands, too. As to judgment on which words cross the line and which words don't, it is a judgment call. Some words will get a T from everybody. Others will get a T from a majority. And still others will get them from a minority. It is still a judgment call. And you are the judge.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I whacked a coach in a youth game for this and would do it again. But it was also in response to a travel my partner called. A high school game I am more apt to let it pass.

Would you have whacked him if he had said, "Come on!"?

To me, it's the exact same thing.

[tref]

I agree with the board "damn it" is not enough for me to even warn him, nor is any other swear word that is not directed directly to me or my crew. Coaches/players cuss all the time & in the OP it was a packed house. Most times those words cannot be heard clearly over the crowd noise.

Empty gym, coach/player yells out profanity for all to hear... perhaps a different story.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by tref

I agree with the board "damn it" is not enough for me to even warn him, nor is any other swear word that is not directed directly to me or my crew. Coaches/players cuss all the time & in the OP it was a packed house. Most times those words cannot be heard clearly over the crowd noise.

Empty gym, coach/player yells out profanity for all to hear... perhaps a different story.

I guess when in Rome ... Around these parts, profanity is always grounds for a "T". But I agree, I don't think what this coach said falls into most people's definition of profanity.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Would you have whacked him if he had said, "Come on!"?

Of course not...well unless it is the cherry on top of a long coming ABS tech.

To me, it's the exact same thing.

It's not to me...and probably not to a good portion of the gym out this way.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

I agree with the board "damn it" is not enough for me to even warn him, nor is any other swear word that is not directed directly to me or my crew. Coaches/players cuss all the time & in the OP it was a packed house. Most times those words cannot be heard clearly over the crowd noise.

Empty gym, coach/player yells out profanity for all to hear... perhaps a different story.

NFHS has made it clear that speaking to his players is not an excuse for swearing.

"Jimmy, play some Effing defense!" T
"Dammit, Jimmy, play defense." No T.
"Jimmy, you're playing like sh1t!" T
"Jimmy, you're playing like crap!" No T.

My personal standards that are not out of the norm here in my little part of Rome.

[26 Year Gap]

I moved to Maine halfway through HS. We were playing a very poor opponent and had given up a goal to tie the score. I yelled, "Are you guys ready to stop friggin around?". Tweet. Yellow. AC calls me over & says "Around here THAT F word is the same as the OTHER F word". [never even heard the word in VT, so I didn't really think much about it]