Whacked Home Coach.......Probably not deserved.....

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

NFHS has made it clear that speaking to his players is not an excuse for swearing.

Nor teammates speaking to one another in that manner.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"Jimmy, play some Effing defense!" T
"Dammit, Jimmy, play defense." No T.
"Jimmy, you're playing like sh1t!" T
"Jimmy, you're playing like crap!" No T.

My personal standards that are not out of the norm here in my little part of Rome.

The guy I'm working for tonight would say no to #1 & 3 depending on how loud it was (probably because he works DI & he also speaks that way)... the guy I'm working for tomorrow night would support a T being assessed in #1 & 3 if nobody heard it but me (probably because he is all about the HS game & doesnt speak that way).

I guess "know your audience" has never been more true! Gotta give em what they want, if we want their games, right?!?!

[RobbyinTN]

IMHO, it all depends on intent and loudness. I had a Boys JV game yesterday and one of the player's missed his shot and said "sh*t" but had I not been next to him I would not have heard it and he was pissed at himself, no one else so I let it go. Had it been loud enough for others to plainly hear I would have probably whacked him. Had it been the F word, I would have definitely have whacked him.

[tref]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

Had it been the F word, I would have definitely have whacked him.

Even if it was under his breath, in the same context & lower than when he said sh*t?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

The guy I'm working for tonight would say no to #1 & 3 depending on how loud it was (probably because he works DI & he also speaks that way)... the guy I'm working for tomorrow night would support a T being assessed in #1 & 3 if nobody heard it but me (probably because he is all about the HS game & doesnt speak that way).

I guess "know your audience" has never been more true! Gotta give em what they want, if we want their games, right?!?!

I actually agree that the volume makes a difference. With both of my examples, if it's quiet enough that only Jimmy and I hear it, I might remind the coach that's he pushing the envelope; depending on the situation. I also might ignore it.

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by tref

Even if it was under his breath, in the same context & lower than when he said sh*t?

I would have told him to watch his language if he did it like this.

[Treeguy]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

IMHO, it all depends on intent and loudness. I had a Boys JV game yesterday and one of the player's missed his shot and said "sh*t" but had I not been next to him I would not have heard it and he was pissed at himself, no one else so I let it go. Had it been loud enough for others to plainly hear I would have probably whacked him. Had it been the F word, I would have definitely have whacked him.

Had something similar, whan a player said f*%k under his breath while running past me. He looked up and saw me and said"oops, sorry". No one else was around and only I heard it. I just chuckled and let it go.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

What's profanity to you isn't profanity to me.

I believe profanity is pretty well defined. What's offensive to one, however, isn't necessarily offensive to another.

Is "damn" cursing? Certainly. Is it profanity? No. Is it offensive? I don't think so, nor would I T-up someone for it. That's very mild.

I don't think what offends is the big question, either. It comes down to what's appropriate for the setting. Carlin's seven words -- plus a few others he left out -- may not offend me, but they simply don't belong at a scholastic contest.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I don't think what offends is the big question, either. It comes down to what's appropriate for the setting. Carlin's seven words -- plus a few others he left out -- may not offend me, but they simply don't belong at a scholastic contest.

In Maine.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It comes down to this -- it appears that we are very inconsistent in this area because we are.

Bingo.

You can discuss this forever but any unsporting technical fouls except for the absolute no-brainers are usually dependant on personal established limits. We all set our own line and those lines will vary. The coaches and players will adjust to your line. Just don't move that line during a game.

There's different ways to keep the game under control and moving. As long as you can do that, you've done your job.

JMO.

[Eastshire]

My guiding principle in this matter is that HS basketball is an extension of the classroom and the coach is a teacher. If it's inappropriate for a teacher, it's inappropriate for a coach.

I would be hard pressed to issue a T for a "damn," but I do find a convenient moment to remind the coach to guard his language.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Bingo.

You can discuss this forever but any unsporting technical fouls except for the absolute no-brainers are usually dependant on personal established limits. We all set our own line and those lines will vary. The coaches and players will adjust to your line. Just don't move that line during a game.

There's different ways to keep the game under control and moving. As long as you can do that, you've done your job.

JMO.

I had a player in a BV game leave the game last night and he was frustrated by his play -- he was venting (quietly enough) on the bench to a coach/teammate and I heard an f-bomb or two. I simply turned and said, "watch your mouth, k?" and left it at that. I didn't make a big deal out of it and I didn't even look in the kid's direction. But I heard the assistant coach address it with the kid.

I guess my gripe with guys who T players up for the utterance of a single profanity on the court is that there doesn't seem to be any common sense or context -- it's an emotional game and kids (and adults) tend to use language that may not be shown on TV at 8PM. Who cares? I don't feel it's my job to try to change society one technical foul at a time.

I've heard more than one player in my life utter out a "sh!t" or "damn" after grounding out or missing a steal or doing something else that leaves them frustrated. It's when the remark is directed at me or an opponent that it becomes part of something bigger.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

IMHO, it all depends on intent and loudness. I had a Boys JV game yesterday and one of the player's missed his shot and said "sh*t" but had I not been next to him I would not have heard it and he was pissed at himself, no one else so I let it go. Had it been loud enough for others to plainly hear I would have probably whacked him. Had it been the F word, I would have definitely have whacked him.

This is one that I handle by saying something to the player like "I understand your frustration, but let's try to keep the language in check."

I also agree with Eastshire that HS athletics are an extension of the classroom...If a teacher in a classroom yelled "DAMN IT, John....Why can't you get these homework problems correct?!?!" I'm pretty sure there would be repercussions...why would it be any different on the basketball court?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Andy

This is one that I handle by saying something to the player like "I understand your frustration, but let's try to keep the language in check."

I also agree with Eastshire that HS athletics are an extension of the classroom...If a teacher in a classroom yelled "DAMN IT, John....Why can't you get these homework problems correct?!?!" I'm pretty sure there would be repercussions...why would it be any different on the basketball court?

Because you're taking that saying and making it something it isn't.

In the classroom, the coach would never openly question the authority of the person running the school, either. They do that *all the time* during a basketball game.

It may be an extension of the classroom, but the rules (especially the unwritten ones) are not the same.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Because you're taking that saying and making it something it isn't.

In the classroom, the coach would never openly question the authority of the person running the school, either. They do that *all the time* during a basketball game.

It may be an extension of the classroom, but the rules (especially the unwritten ones) are not the same.

I don't know that I agree the rules are substantially different. A coach is expected to be a role model of good sportsmanship and citizenship. Sure they don't always live up to it, but neither do teachers in the class room. The failure to meet the goals doesn't mean the goals aren't there.

Also, you've not been in a lot of the classrooms I've been in .

[Adam]

In some areas, you can hold them to a very tight standard; in fact you're expected to.

In other areas, you're better off showing some discretion.

Neither is worse nor better than the other, but let's stop pretending the standards are the same everywhere.