Is this a foul?

[Bullycon]

A lot of controversy over last night's UTK-UGA game.

Here's the finish: YouTube - Tennessee's Brian Williams Sinks Falling Over The Back Buzzer Beater Against Georgia

I'm a football official, so I know what appears to be a foul isn't always a foul. I don't know the rules of basketball that well, and after skimming through the NCAA rulebook, I'm still not sure what should have been called here.

Did UTK's Williams foul UGA's Barnes? Or was Barnes the one who initiated contact by backing into Williams?

All I've learned for sure is there is no such thing as "over the back."

[JRutledge]

Based on the angles they show, I can live with what was called. The main issue I would like to see is if the arm was contacted before the ball. I cannot tell that the player from behind was not vertical. Actually it looked like the Georgia player might have backed up into the Tennessee player.

I took a closer look at the video, if anything the Georgia player grabbed the right arm of the Tennessee player. If anything was going to be called it should have been on the Georgia player.

Peace

[RobbyinTN]

There is such as a think as an "over the back" but usually it is more of through the back".

As far as the play in question, after looking at it several times and pausing it at the point of play, if I had to call anything I would call a hold on the GA player as the UT player had both hands on the ball and the GA player was holding onto his arm as he was falling into him. The question you have to answer is if the UT player truly had control of the ball at the point of the potential foul. I think he did after looking at it several times but at first glance in real time I would have went with no foul.

Robby

[VaTerp]

That really is a close one in live speed. But I think I go no-call here too. A player is entitled to their spot on the floor and to jump straight up. The Tenn player reaches his arms over the Georgia player but what fans want called "over the back" is not really a foul. That foul occurs when there is contact from a player "going through" a player or dislodges them from their spot and is actually a "push."

And when you look closely at the slow motion replay, you can see that the Georgia player actually grabs the Tenn players' arm. While I'm sure plenty of people were screaming "over the back" its a good no-call to me. And you could have even had a foul on the GA player on the shot but that's a good no-call as well.

[stiffler3492]

I agree with Rut. Sometimes, you get a taller player literally reaching over the top of a shorter player to grab a rebound. Take a look at the second replay. It looks to me like the UT player is moving backwards when he catches the ball and shoots it. I didn't see any contact that would be a foul prior to that.

I see this type of play alot in girls games, when one team has a really tall girl and the others are just average height.

[APG]

For convenience's sake.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

There is such as a think as an "over the back" but usually it is more of through the back".

Can you show anyone in the rulebook where that is stated as any violation of the rules?

Peace

[RobbyinTN]

True, in the rule book there is no "over the back" violation but there are times a push from behind during a rebound is an "over the back"/"through the back" foul; however, I have never reported a "over the back" foul at the table

I did have a rookie U one night that called "over the back" and used some weird mechanic I had never seen before or since not only did he use the wrong mechanic I don't think he was correct but he was Lead.

[Raymond]

If you watch the replay from the court level camera at the opposite end of the court you will see Williams was actually moving backwards away from the Georgia player when grabbed the rebound.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

True, in the rule book there is no "over the back" violation but there are times a push from behind during a rebound is an "over the back"/"through the back" foul; however, I have never reported a "over the back" foul at the table

I did have a rookie U one night that called "over the back" and used some weird mechanic I had never seen before or since not only did he use the wrong mechanic I don't think he was correct but he was Lead.

Was it the Boris Karloff mechanic?

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I agree with Rut. Sometimes, you get a taller player literally reaching over the top of a shorter player to grab a rebound. Take a look at the second replay. It looks to me like the UT player is moving backwards when he catches the ball and shoots it. I didn't see any contact that would be a foul prior to that.

I see this type of play alot in girls games, when one team has a really tall girl and the others are just average height.

From what we can see from the angles shown, I agree. If anything, it should be a call on the Georgia player - good no call IMHO.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Can you show anyone in the rulebook where that is stated as any violation of the rules?

Peace

I think he's contracted the truncated contraction disease that showed up here a day or so ago. I think he meant "isn't".

As for the play/call. Looked right to me. The UT rebounder was jumping away from the basket.....not likely to be a foul on him unless he grabs the player in front and drags him back too.

[just another ref]

I've said this before. Isn't the "there is no such thing as over the back" thing about to outlive his usefulness? Don't we know what they're asking for?


"Come on ref! That's a pushing foul on that guy trying to rebound over my guy who had inside position. I think he displaced him!"

Nobody complains when they yell "Walking!" That's not in the books either.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I've said this before. Isn't the "there is no such thing as over the back" thing about to outlive his usefulness? Don't we know what they're asking for?


"Come on ref! That's a pushing foul on that guy trying to rebound over my guy who had inside position. I think he displaced him!"

Nobody complains when they yell "Walking!" That's not in the books either.

No, it hasn't outlived it's usefulness....far from it. In conveys a completely wrong idea. It we started using it, it would only make it far more difficult to get even players and coaches to realize that tall is not illegal.

[APG]

Originally Posted by camron rust

no, it hasn't outlived it's usefulness....far from it. In conveys a completely wrong idea. It we started using it, it would only make it far more difficult to get even players and coaches to realize that tall is not illegal.

+1