Time out

[ttt]

Glad I found this site, as a coach I always like to learn and possibly somebody could answer this for me. This happened a couple of years back in a game that i was scouting.

Team A is at the line shooting a FT. When the shooter was handed the ball the opposing coach called time-out, I believe that it was kind of a slime ball play to be honest. This caused kind of a mess.

First thing that happened was the shooter stopped and passed the ball to the official. Players then started walking towards the benches.

Next the ref granted the time-out.

Turns out the coach did not have a time-out and stated to the ref "The player had the ball, you can't grant me a time-out."....as I said slime ball move.

What should have happened in this situation? If I recall the they allowed the player to take the shots and a T was given to the coach.

[just another ref]

A coach cannot call a timeout, he can only make a request, which must subsequently be granted by the official. In this situation, the ball is live, and in control of the opponent, so, by rule, the timeout should not be granted. If the shooter passed the ball to the official, this should have been a violation. If the coach has no timeout but requested one anyway, if the official granted it, properly or not, he gets his timeout, along with a technical foul.

[ttt]

So the correct call should have been that Team B recieves the ball because the shooter failed to hit the Cylinder?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the shooter passed the ball to the official, this should have been a violation.

Nowayinhell I'm ever calling a violation in that situation. That's an unfair advantage not intended by rule. I'm doing exactly what it sounds like the officials actually did. Tell 'em you granted the TO by mistake but once you granted it, it must be taken. The ball was dead on your granting of the TO before any FT violations occurred. Give the calling team a "T" for the excess TO and penalize everything in order of occurence.

We have rules backing for all of that.

Classic false multiple foul.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nowayinhell I'm ever calling a violation in that situation. That's an unfair advantage not intended by rule. I'm doing exactly what it sounds like the officials actually did. Tell 'em you granted the TO by mistake but once you granted it, it must be taken. The ball was dead on your granting of the TO before any FT violations occurred. Give the calling team a "T" for the excess TO and penalize everything in order of occurence.

We have rules backing for all of that.

Classic false multiple foul.

Exactly.

If the coach further objects, I'll tell him he can have a T for unsporting conduct or a T for excess TO. And, I might even have a disconcertion violation if the first FT turns out to be missed.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nowayinhell I'm ever calling a violation in that situation. That's an unfair advantage not intended by rule. I'm doing exactly what it sounds like the officials actually did. Tell 'em you granted the TO by mistake but once you granted it, it must be taken. The ball was dead on your granting of the TO before any FT violations occurred. Give the calling team a "T" for the excess TO and penalize everything in order of occurence.

We have rules backing for all of that.

Classic false multiple foul.

Actually, according to the sequence of events as given in the OP, request was made, ball tossed to the official, (violation) timeout was granted. (T) By rule, everything here is correct.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ttt

When the shooter was handed the ball the opposing coach called time-out, I believe that it was kind of a slime ball play to be honest.

Sounds like a classic case of disconcertion to me.

Originally Posted by just another ref

A coach cannot call a timeout, he can only make a request, which must subsequently be granted by the official.

Okay, no offense JAR, but I think it's time we get rid of this one.

Only an official can grant a timeout.

But a player or a coach can definitely CALL timeout.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Sounds like a classic case of disconcertion to me.



Okay, no offense JAR, but I think it's time we get rid of this one.

Only an official can grant a timeout.

But a player or a coach can definitely CALL timeout.

I agree this one has been beat to death. The point I was making, which I thought needed to be said in this case, was that nothing the coach said or did could kill the play, this has to be done by the official.

[Adam]

tough situation. Sounds like the officials tried to ignore the request initially, but decided to grant him the TO when the shooter obviously got confused.
I like how they dealt with it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I agree this one has been beat to death. The point I was making, which I thought needed to be said in this case, was that nothing the coach said or did could kill the play, this has to be done by the official.

The coach's time-out request came while A1 still had the ball and since his request was granted the ball became immediately dead when he made his request. Not possible for A1 to violate since the ball was dead.

[Nevadaref]

There is a case book play stating to penalize a verbal fake with a violation, such as one player telling an opponent to switch lane spaces after the shooter has the ball. That seems similar to what the coach did.
I have no problem with the answer of JR, and believe that there is rules support.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The coach's time-out request came while A1 still had the ball and since his request was granted the ball became immediately dead when he made his request. Not possible for A1 to violate since the ball was dead.

An improperly made request does not cause the ball to be immediately dead.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

An improperly made request does not cause the ball to be immediately dead.

If the request is recognized why wouldn't it?








You know, similar to "improper throw-in, coach's comment, 3-point shot taken, basket made, then a whistle."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If the request is recognized why wouldn't it?

You know, similar to "improper throw-in, coach's comment, 3-point shot taken, basket made, then a whistle."

A foul causes the ball to be dead, a timeout request does not. When was the request granted? According to the OP, the player heard the request, threw the ball to the official, then the timeout was granted. I took this to mean the official originally intended to ignore the request.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A foul causes the ball to be dead, a timeout request does not. When was the request granted? ...

In this case it made the ball dead b/c it was disconcertion.