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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 02:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttt View Post
When the shooter was handed the ball the opposing coach called time-out, I believe that it was kind of a slime ball play to be honest.
Sounds like a classic case of disconcertion to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
A coach cannot call a timeout, he can only make a request, which must subsequently be granted by the official.
Okay, no offense JAR, but I think it's time we get rid of this one.

Only an official can grant a timeout.

But a player or a coach can definitely CALL timeout.
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Last edited by BktBallRef; Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 02:54pm.
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Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Sounds like a classic case of disconcertion to me.



Okay, no offense JAR, but I think it's time we get rid of this one.

Only an official can grant a timeout.

But a player or a coach can definitely CALL timeout.
I agree this one has been beat to death. The point I was making, which I thought needed to be said in this case, was that nothing the coach said or did could kill the play, this has to be done by the official.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 04:43pm
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tough situation. Sounds like the officials tried to ignore the request initially, but decided to grant him the TO when the shooter obviously got confused.
I like how they dealt with it.
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Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 05:14pm
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There is a case book play stating to penalize a verbal fake with a violation, such as one player telling an opponent to switch lane spaces after the shooter has the ball. That seems similar to what the coach did.
I have no problem with the answer of JR, and believe that there is rules support.
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Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 07:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
There is a case book play stating to penalize a verbal fake with a violation, such as one player telling an opponent to switch lane spaces after the shooter has the ball.
9.1.3 SITUATION B: While A1’s free-throw attempt is in flight toward the basket:
(a) B1; or (b) A2, in a marked lane space, fakes by rocking forward causing
an opponent to enter the lane prematurely. RULING: In (a), the official will use the
proper signal indicating a violation by B1 and a substitute free throw is awarded
if A1’s attempt is unsuccessful. If it is successful, the violation is ignored. In (b),
the official will sound his/her whistle immediately when A2 violates. The violation
cancels A1’s attempt and it is B’s ball for a throw-in, unless an additional free
throw(s) is involved. COMMENT: If a player uses verbal tactics like “you’re in my space”
or a time-out request to fake an opponent into violations, only the fake is
penalized. (9-1-3b Penalty 1, 4d)
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Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 07:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
9.1.3 SITUATION B: While A1’s free-throw attempt is in flight toward the basket:
(a) B1; or (b) A2, in a marked lane space, fakes by rocking forward causing
an opponent to enter the lane prematurely. RULING: In (a), the official will use the
proper signal indicating a violation by B1 and a substitute free throw is awarded
if A1’s attempt is unsuccessful. If it is successful, the violation is ignored. In (b),
the official will sound his/her whistle immediately when A2 violates. The violation
cancels A1’s attempt and it is B’s ball for a throw-in, unless an additional free
throw(s) is involved. COMMENT: If a player uses verbal tactics like “you’re in my space”
or a time-out request to fake an opponent into violations, only the fake is
penalized.
(9-1-3b Penalty 1, 4d)
That's the one and provides clear rules direction on how to handle this situation. That is exactly what the coach did in the OP.
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Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 07:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
9.1.3 SITUATION B: While A1’s free-throw attempt is in flight toward the basket:
(a) B1; or (b) A2, in a marked lane space, fakes by rocking forward causing
an opponent to enter the lane prematurely. RULING: In (a), the official will use the
proper signal indicating a violation by B1 and a substitute free throw is awarded
if A1’s attempt is unsuccessful. If it is successful, the violation is ignored. In (b),
the official will sound his/her whistle immediately when A2 violates. The violation
cancels A1’s attempt and it is B’s ball for a throw-in, unless an additional free
throw(s) is involved. COMMENT: If a player uses verbal tactics like “you’re in my space”
or a time-out request to fake an opponent into violations, only the fake is
penalized.
(9-1-3b Penalty 1, 4d)
To use the words of another esteemed member, doesn't exactly cover the OP but it's close enough for me to use.
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Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 05:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I agree this one has been beat to death. The point I was making, which I thought needed to be said in this case, was that nothing the coach said or did could kill the play, this has to be done by the official.
The coach's time-out request came while A1 still had the ball and since his request was granted the ball became immediately dead when he made his request. Not possible for A1 to violate since the ball was dead.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 06:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
The coach's time-out request came while A1 still had the ball and since his request was granted the ball became immediately dead when he made his request. Not possible for A1 to violate since the ball was dead.
An improperly made request does not cause the ball to be immediately dead.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 06:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
An improperly made request does not cause the ball to be immediately dead.
If the request is recognized why wouldn't it?








You know, similar to "improper throw-in, coach's comment, 3-point shot taken, basket made, then a whistle."
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 06:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
If the request is recognized why wouldn't it?

You know, similar to "improper throw-in, coach's comment, 3-point shot taken, basket made, then a whistle."
A foul causes the ball to be dead, a timeout request does not. When was the request granted? According to the OP, the player heard the request, threw the ball to the official, then the timeout was granted. I took this to mean the official originally intended to ignore the request.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 06:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
A foul causes the ball to be dead, a timeout request does not. When was the request granted? ...

In this case it made the ball dead b/c it was disconcertion.
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Old Sun Jan 16, 2011, 08:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
An improperly made request does not cause the ball to be immediately dead.
No, but the granting of it does. And you have no idea when the TO was really granted from the confused description we're being given from a non-official.
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