Aleternating Possession Rule/Question

[MOofficial]

Situation:

HS BV 30 point game

Jump ball. Alternating possession pointed towards team A. I hand the ball to team A for a throw in. Team A has trouble getting the ball in and eventually has a 5 second violation. What to do with the arrow??? I told my table crew that the arrow will still be pointed towards team A's basket because the ball was never legally touched on the alternating possession throw in. Team B's coach just wants an explanation and I explain to him and the table crew about how the ball has to be legally touched for the arrow to switch and since the next time the ball was legally touched on a throw in was a result of the 5 second violation the arrow will not switch...

I know Team b's coach really well and he just doesn't understand but he goes with it and his assistant starts looking it up for the rest of the game. After the game is over I find it in the book and was going to show team b why I did certain stuff. Come to find out I screwed it up. I don't have my case book on me but it states something about the only time the arrow would switch in this situation is on a violation by team A (5 sec, traveling on the throw in) if it was a violation by team b (kick ball) it would not change. So I saw the coach after the game and explained and we talked about it. NO big deal at all.

My question is the case book says violation only on team a the arrow would change to team by. So if we had an alternating possession throw in with team a and team a sets an illegal screen will the possession arrow still stay with team a? Doesn't seem right considering on a violation by team a it will change but a foul by team a it will not.

Lesson learned tonight, and thank god it was a 30 point game.

[Freddy]

This is a seeming inequity memorized best by the acknowledgement that it's opposite of what one would normally think. Never had it, and hope that when I do I'll be able to recall the seeming inequity in order to get it right.

[just another ref]

Throw-in team violates, arrow switches. Foul by either team, no switch.

This is topsy turvy?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Throw-in team violates, arrow switches. Foul by either team, no switch.

This is topsy turvy?

Topsy turvy to me because the penalty for a violation is greater than that of a foul. My mind suggests to me that the result of a foul should be more punitive than that of a violation. That seeming inequity is how I try to remember the proper application of the rule.

Perhaps in my mind only--sometimes a very topsy turvy place into which to delve. Then again, there are a lot of things in my mind that don't make sense. This only scratches the surface.

[BktBallRef]

We have an AP throw-in.
If Team A violates, it's a throw-in violation.
Therefore, we change the arrow.

We have an AP throw-in.
If Team A fouls, it has nothing to do with the AP throw-in.
Therefore, we do not change the arrow.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Topsy turvy to me because the penalty for a violation is greater than that of a foul. My mind suggests to me that the result of a foul should be more punitive than that of a violation. That seeming inequity is how I try to remember the proper application of the rule.

Perhaps in my mind only--sometimes a very topsy turvy place into which to delve. Then again, there are a lot of things in my mind that don't make sense. This only scratches the surface.

I agree with your train of thought.

[Adam]

If they'd just switch the arrow when we hand the ball to the thrower, all these things go away.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

We have an AP throw-in.
If Team A violates, it's a throw-in violation.
Therefore, we change the arrow.

We have an AP throw-in.
If Team A fouls, it has nothing to do with the violation.
Therefore, we do not change the arrow.

Did you mean it has nothing to do with the throw-in?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If they'd just switch the arrow when we hand the ball to the thrower..........

Many do. Some even before that.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If they'd just switch the arrow when we hand the ball to the thrower, all these things go away.

+1.
Simple and logical.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If they'd just switch the arrow when we hand the ball to the thrower, all these things go away.

Not if we have a foul before the throw-in ends.

Simplest solution is for the officials to know the rule and if we have a foul or violation during an AP throw-in to take a few seconds to make sure the AP is set properly.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not if we have a foul before the throw-in ends.

Simplest solution is for the officials to know the rule and if we have a foul or violation during an AP throw-in to take a few seconds to make sure the AP is set properly.

Sorry, i was referring to a rule change. "They" would be the rules committee.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

+1.
Simple and logical.

No. It's not that difficult.

You change the arrow when the throw-in legally ends or when A violates.

It's not that hard.

[APG]

Originally Posted by MOofficial

I know Team b's coach really well and he just doesn't understand but he goes with it and his assistant starts looking it up for the rest of the game. After the game is over I find it in the book and was going to show team b why I did certain stuff. Come to find out I screwed it up. I don't have my case book on me but it states something about the only time the arrow would switch in this situation is on a violation by team A (5 sec, traveling on the throw in) if it was a violation by team b (kick ball) it would not change. So I saw the coach after the game and explained and we talked about it. NO big deal at all.

Others have answered your question. I just want to point out that there is no such thing as traveling on a throw-in.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Others have answered your question. I just want to point out that there is no such thing as traveling on a throw-in.

Doh! Thanks for catching that.