FT Mess Up

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Let's say the administering official mentions to the B players on the floor that we need one more on the low block, and they refuse to comply.

Would you administer the FT with a delayed violation signal, or is there other action that should be taken?

Technical Foul.... you don't need them anymore.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Technical Foul.

Even after a timeout?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even after a timeout?

Where does it say that?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even after a timeout?

8-1-2: Following a time-out or intermission, the resumption-of-play
procedure may be used to prevent delay. The administering official will sound the
whistle to indicate play will resume. The ball shall be placed at the disposal of the
thrower or placed on the floor and the count shall begin. Either or both teams may
be charged with a violation. Following a violation by one or both teams, if the
offending team(s) continues to delay, a technical foul shall be ruled.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Let's say the administering official mentions to the B players on the floor that we need one more on the low block, and they refuse to comply.

Would you administer the FT with a delayed violation signal, or is there other action that should be taken?

Originally Posted by tjones1

Technical Foul.... you don't need them anymore.

Yep. Real simple at that point.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Technical Foul.... you don't need them anymore.

What rule/case are you applying?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

What rule/case are you applying?

Someone else will have to provide you a reference, stiffy. I don't have my books with me.

[Upward ref]

from my previous "free throw" thread a couple of days ago , I thought the concensus from you old timers was ; its not a violation but a "T" .
If preventive officiating didnt catch it before the first of 2 throws , then direct team b to occupy their spots and if they dont ,then a "T" ? Or a "T" for delay of game . Isn't it kind of like having 6 players on the floor for team b during a live ball, do you administer a "T" because you didnt count them before handing the ball to the kid? 10.1.5, c does fit for the sit. before the first throw and it's a warning and then a "T" .
I Know what you said before Welpe (re my "free throw OP ), but to me it's a refusal to abide by the rule more than a delay. Plus i can't envision a coach refusing to put 2 players in the first 2 lane spots after warning him and giving the players time to run over. In my OP the coach already refused by calling his 5 players over for a huddle when the lead was ready to , (and did !) administer the first f t .
Sorry , but I'm not convinced by rule that this is not a violation. 8-1 says either team may be charged with a violation . 9-1 penalties are all violations and not "T"'s , (including lane space requirements from 8-1-4)
And what of the further complications of D.O.G. procedures If it's following a time out or intermission as in 8-2 ? no warning there, or waiting for the coach to comply ! And you guys who don't want to abide with a "normal " 10 count ; what are you going to do here , a smoke break? As always ,I'll go with the concensus but it would be nice if it made sense and was easy for an old man to remember!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Upward ref

The jury must still be out.

It's only a violation after a timeout, or an intermission. It's a technical foul all other times.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Upward ref

from my previous "free throw" thread a couple of days ago , I thought the concensus from you old timers was ; its not a violation but a "T" .
If preventive officiating didnt catch it before the first of 2 throws , then direct team b to occupy their spots and if they dont ,then a "T" ? Or a "T" for delay of game . Isn't it kind of like having 6 players on the floor for team b during a live ball, do you administer a "T" because you didnt count them before handing the ball to the kid? 10.1.5, c does fit for the sit. before the first throw and it's a warning and then a "T" .
I Know what you said before Welpe (re my "free throw OP ), but to me it's a refusal to abide by the rule more than a delay. Plus i can't envision a coach refusing to put 2 players in the first 2 lane spots after warning him and giving the players time to run over. In my OP the coach already refused by calling his 5 players over for a huddle when the lead was ready to , (and did !) administer the first f t .
Sorry , but I'm not convinced by rule that this is not a violation. 8-1 says either team may be charged with a violation . 9-1 penalties are all violations and not "T"'s , (including lane space requirements from 8-1-4)
And what of the further complications of D.O.G. procedures If it's following a time out or intermission as in 8-2 ? no warning there, or waiting for the coach to comply ! And you guys who don't want to abide with a "normal " 10 count ; what are you going to do here , a smoke break? As always ,I'll go with the concensus but it would be nice if it made sense and was easy for an old man to remember!

I. Not after a TO.
A. Direct B to occupy the spaces; if they refuse, it's a T
B. If officials fail to notice B not in the spaces:
1. If discoverd after the ball is at the disposal, and before the FT ends -- violation (delayed)
2. If discoverd after the FT ends -- too late to penalize

II. After a TO (resumption of play)
A. Violation if B not in spots
1. If FT missed, re-administer
a. If B still not in spots, T
2. If FT made, and another FT is to follow, go back to A.


See 9.1.2A, 9.1.2B, 10.1.5A, 10.1.5C

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not after a TO. After a TO.

Intermissions?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Upward ref

As always ,I'll go with the concensus but it would be nice if it made sense and was easy for an old man to remember!

Why not just learn the rules and go by them? They ain't that hard to remember and I'd wager Lark's left one that I'm a heckuva lot older than you are. And whether the rules make sense or not just isn't relevant. They just are.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

What rule/case are you applying?

10-1-5b and 10.1.5C

[stiffler3492]

Thank you Bob

[Indianaref]

Always listen to Bob