Question and Advice

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you and another official have a conflict it is expected the referee is not going to allow them to screw it up or to have some administrative issue.

If you and your crew routinely confer to settle such matters, and especially is you are the senior member and they look to you in such a situation, I have no problem with that, sounds good to me. But the fact is, if they do screw it up, call a double foul when it shouldn't be or whatever, and are not receptive to your advice, there is nothing you can do about it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that happen to me where I had a call, before a foul I would make that known immediately. The violation happened first, why would you not let everyone know that? And if I was the official that was calling the foul, I would want the right call to be made.

Sounds perfect if both of you had sounded your whistles, especially if you came up with an open hand, and your partner came up with a fist. I believe that just another ref was saying that he didn't even sound his whistle in the example he gave, and although he didn't state it, the play may have even been outside of his primary coverage area.

Are you going to give your partner information on a call outside of your primary coverage area, when you don't even sound your whistle? We occasionally do this, that is, offer information, on tipped out of bounds calls, so I'm not sure that this would be appropriate, or not, on this specific play?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Many years ago, when I first started, I had very limited rules knowledge, very little in the way of mechanics, and no training.

And this changed? When?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We do not use a mechanics book.

I have no problem with your local organization not using the NFHS manual, or the IAABO manual, but don't you have some guidelines written down somewhere so that rookie officials in your local area have something to study, to either pass some type of floor exam, or to improve their mechanics?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And this changed? When?

Who said it changed?

I do own a current rule book now. I had never seen a rule book my first few years, and the first one I had was 5 years old or more.

I hope to attend a camp of yours someday. First thing taught is how to post images?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If you and your crew routinely confer to settle such matters, and especially is you are the senior member and they look to you in such a situation, I have no problem with that, sounds good to me. But the fact is, if they do screw it up, call a double foul when it shouldn't be or whatever, and are not receptive to your advice, there is nothing you can do about it.

Most officials are not making the argument you are. Most officials agree that I have come in contact to call what happen first. I have yet other than you on this site to make such an argument that we must go with your interpretation of the rule. So this is not a hard issue with the people I have come in contact with. And the only situation I have ever heard someone to follow is you. I do not think I have to worry about this being an issue. If it is I am sure the Referee would be expected to not allow this to happen when something clearly happen first. Or that official that insisted to not follow the rules might not be working in that league or as many games in the future.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I have no problem with your local organization not using the NFHS manual, or the IAABO manual, but don't you have some guidelines written down somewhere so that rookie officials in your local area have something to study, to either pass some type of floor exam, or to improve their mechanics?

No.

I have said this before; we have the model of the NCAA when it comes to assigning in most areas I work. If the conference assignor likes you, they hire you. If they do not like you, they will not hire you. Most are not going to hire you without seeing you at camp. Our associations are only training organizations that teach guys how to officiate and sometimes run camps for the membership. It is up those that want to improve to attend the meetings or camps to get better. Those that know what they are doing will be noticed.

We are independent contractors here. You do what it takes to get better or you will get passed over like other professions.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sounds perfect if both of you had sounded your whistles, especially if you came up with an open hand, and your partner came up with a fist. I believe that just another ref was saying that he didn't even sound his whistle in the example he gave, and although he didn't state it, the play may have even been outside of his primary coverage area.

Are you going to give your partner information on a call outside of your primary coverage area, when you don't even sound your whistle? We occasionally do this, that is, offer information, on tipped out of bounds calls, so I'm not sure that this would be appropriate, or not, on this specific play?

Depends on the situation. I have given information before and will again. It does not mean that it is required or that it always happens.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Most officials are not making the argument you are.

The argument I'm making now is that if the other two officials call a foul, even if you are the referee, it is their call, not yours.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The argument I'm making now is that if the other two officials call a foul, even if you are the referee, it is their call, not yours.

And the point I am making is that they are going to decide if they can work it out. If they are not going to agree we are not going to blatantly misapply the rule and go with a double foul when a double foul is not warranted. And if that was not the case then assignors would never assign the Referee, they would let the officials decide on their own and in many cases the Referee has to file a game report on things that happen in the game. This would not happen on my watch without some convincing whether it is my call or not.

Peace

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I disagree. "Not just lie, but emphatically lie."

Your choice, Snaqs. I suppose your option would have been to have told the coach that you had something different and that your over-zealous partner took the call from you and may end up costing your team the game, coach.

I will support my partner in this case -- especially based on the OP's description of what happened. Disagree if you wish.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

I suppose your option would have been to have told the coach that you had something different and that your over-zealous partner took the call from you and may end up costing your team the game, coach. I will support my partner in this case.

“Coach, he was right there and had a great angle.”

“Coach, he had a great look, but if you have a specific question, you’ll have to ask him, he be over here in just a minute.”

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

“Coach, he was right there and had a great angle.”

“Coach, had a great look, but if you have a specific question, you’ll have to ask him, he be over here in just a minute.”

Yep and yep.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Your choice, Snaqs. I suppose your option would have been to have told the coach that you had something different and that your over-zealous partner took the call from you and may end up costing your team the game, coach.

I will support my partner in this case -- especially based on the OP's description of what happened. Disagree if you wish.

Really? You got that from what I wrote? How?

You don't have to lie in order to back your partner.

[Judtech]

Every pregame I am at the following, rather simplistic, sentences are uttered:
"Double whistles are good. Double signals are bad." (SOMETIMES it is uttered like Frankenstein, just to liven things up!)