two man chop?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's very odd to me. What does the school size have to do with whether you mandate 3 man or 2 man?

Surely it's not based on the gate. I routinely work 1A and 2A schools that have a larger attendance than the bigger 4A schools. Many small communities provde better support for their teams.

With the exception of one conference, all of our JV games use 3 man. That's been the case for alonst 10 years.

The conference where we work 2 man plays JVG, JVB, VG, and VB all at the same site beginning at 4pm. The JV games have a running clock, except for the last two mintues of each half. That was the compromise we negotiated to go to 2 man; shorter games and a shorter night for everyone.

Let me expand: Largest schools [with biggest gates] are expected to have 3 crews for 4 GV & 4 BV home games. Next biggest, 3 of each, and so forth. Largest schools also have larger budgets AND there are not many private schools in VT, which here in FL seem to be in the lowest 3 of 6 classifications. [I presume that there may be more private schools in NC that populate some of the smaller classifications, hence some larger gates.]

Also, in VT, coach buses are used by many larger schools and the large schools tend to not have to travel as far for many of their games.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I doubt that your schools are smaller than ours. Most of our high schools have less than 700 kids total 9-12. Many we referee for about about 200- 300 kids. We have 11 high schools and 13 middle schools.

My local board covers seventy high schools. Only two public high schools in my local area have fewer than three hundred students, the smallest having 218, and 236. On the other end of the spectrum we have a twenty-one public high schools in my local area with over one thousand students, the largest having 2568 students.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's very odd to me. What does the school size have to do with whether you mandate 3 man or 2 man?

I could make an argument that bigger schools likely have better athletes and their games likely need 3 officials more than smaller schools. Sure, there are exceptions that prove the rule.

But from a money standpoint, it makes little sense, I agree.

From a completely non-PC standpoint, I'd be thrilled to go 3-person for all boys games and none of the girls games.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

[I presume that there may be more private schools in NC that populate some of the smaller classifications, hence some larger gates.]

Nope. There are only 2 private schools among the almost 400 schools that comprise the NCHSAA.

Athletic budgets are based solely on individual school district funding. Size really doesn't have much to do with it.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Same here in my little corner of Connecticut. We have one conference of very small schools that always have big crowds on a Friday nights. Of course there's absolutely nothing else to do in these very small towns on a Friday night. It's either watch a high school basketball game, or mosey on downtown and watch the one traffic light change colors.

Some of our guys don't like doing these games, a lot of below the rim stuff, but I love them. I'm a big believer that games like these are the most important games being played that night for these kids, fans, and coaches, and I make sure that I officiate the game keeping that in mind, through my effort, and my attitude.

Keep me in town on Tuesdays, in town being where the 4A schools are, and send me out of town where the gyms are packed on Friday night.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

From a completely non-PC standpoint, I'd be thrilled to go 3-person for all boys games and none of the girls games.

I don't have any desire to do any 2 man games. No thank you.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't have any desire to do any 2 man games. No thank you.

I enjoy it from time to tim, actually. If it's an easy game to work where I can get into a good run up and down the court, there's nothing like it.

Of course, it's hard to predict when a game's going to be easy to work.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Personally, I think you can (and probably do) chop without staring at the basketball.

It is not a matter of staring at the basketball. The point is that in a 2-person game, if BOTH officials need to watch for the same thing to happen -- peripheral vision, walking-and-chewing-gum-at-the-same time, etc. not withstanding -- I believe (and, since the NFHS did NOT put the mechanic in the 2-person mechanics, they must agree) -- is overkill and increases the risk that an official will miss something significant. I don't consider myself to be particularly dense, but I do know that any additional activity will at least occasionally cause something to be missed.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Of course, it's hard to predict when a game's going to be easy to work.

I KNOW when I have to do JVB, two-person in some of the larger schools here, I'm going to have a good workout....and sometimes have my hands full.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

It is not a matter of staring at the basketball. The point is that in a 2-person game, if BOTH officials need to watch for the same thing to happen -- peripheral vision, walking-and-chewing-gum-at-the-same time, etc. not withstanding -- I believe (and, since the NFHS did NOT put the mechanic in the 2-person mechanics, they must agree) -- is overkill and increases the risk that an official will miss something significant. I don't consider myself to be particularly dense, but I do know that any additional activity will at least occasionally cause something to be missed.

I don't see it as a particularly compelling argument, to be honest, but I don't see the T mirroring the chop to be particularly compelling in 3-person, either. The timer can start the clock on the touch on the floor and, in my experience, doesn't really look at the officials anyway.

[mj]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

From a completely non-PC standpoint, I'd be thrilled to go 3-person for all boys games and none of the girls games.

I have to agree here. I don't see too many girl's games around these parts that would 'require' 3 officials.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The timer can start the clock on the touch on the floor and, in my experience, doesn't really look at the officials anyway.

+1 I was waiting for somebody to say that.

[26 Year Gap]

I have two girls DHs this week. 2 officials for both games each night. This assn never has 2 on the BV games. My secondary assn has 3 on ALL V games.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

+1 I was waiting for somebody to say that.

Depends on the timer.....

[ga314ref]

I lurk here quite a bit. I don't post much because the best answer has usually been given by the time I see a post, but I'll add two cents here since I don't think anyone from Georgia has added anything to this topic.

Here, varsity crews are 3-person, and most assignments are b/g doubleheaders paying $46/game. Sub-varsity is 2-person, usually b/g doubleheader, at $37/game. Some sub-varsity tournaments (very few) use 3-person ($41/gm). In our 2-person crews, T chops the clock in the frontcourt. T is also tableside on FTs.

I'm with Multi-County, and it usually takes an official 3-4 years to work up to varsity, and in that time they will have had to go to camps, and been evaluated by several of our veteran officials. While it's not verbalized, anyone with decent eyes will notice the association prefers its varsity officials to look athletic, and definitely well-groomed. Rules knowledge and a professional attitude are a must.

I've worked varsity in the past, but for personal reasons I've worked sub-varsity for the past few years.