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-   -   Messy situation (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60279-messy-situation.html)

Adam Wed Dec 29, 2010 03:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 710690)
Coach requests, and is granted a timeout. Official home scorekeeper states that it is his sixth time out. Official charges coach with a technical foul. Before shots are taken, the official home scorekeeper, and the visiting scorekeeper, confer and decide that an error was made in the offcial home scorebook, and that the coach did not use a timeout in excess of the limit.

Call me a fool, but I'm taking back the charged techincal foul.

How about after the first FT?

Eastshire Wed Dec 29, 2010 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 710690)
Coach requests, and is granted a timeout. Official home scorekeeper states that it is his sixth time out. Official charges coach with a technical foul. Before shots are taken, the official home scorekeeper, and the visiting scorekeeper, confer and decide that an error was made in the offcial home scorebook, and that the coach did not use a timeout in excess of the limit.

Call me a fool, but I'm taking back the charged techincal foul.

First, I hope the official charged the team, not the coach, with the T.

Second, yes if the free throw has not yet been taken, you're not too late to fix it. If, however, the free throw has been taken, what's done is done.

An interesting question would be if the team would still have a time out left since they paid a T for their 5th timeout.

Judtech Wed Dec 29, 2010 03:54pm

BILLY - I think your case and the OP are good object lessons in a "slow whistle" I know this usually applies to action on the court but it applies in both of these cases as well. Or you could call it preventative officiating.
In both cases I would make sure that I went to the table and confered with the scorebookS. The scorekeeper from the offending team will most likely have a different opinion in regards to the player or the TO. If they can't agree then I go with the home book, but this would give the home book an opportunity to "revise" their assesment of the situation. It would go a long way to preventing either of these situations. Because if you find yourself in this situation, your bacon is probably cooked regardless of what you do. IT is the archetype for a No Win:
Probable questions asked by your assignor -
Why did you issue a "T" in the first place?
Why did you rescind a "T" if it is not of the CE?
Why did you NOT rescind the "T" when there was no error?

The_Rookie Wed Dec 29, 2010 03:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 710552)
The ball is dead. V12 is discovered to be participating but is not in the scorebook. He must now be added to the scorebook. You now assess a 'T'.

In my very first game ever 2 days ago..we had a scorebook issue as well. Assessed a Technical.

Question: after adding the player to book, is player eligible to play in game??

Adam Wed Dec 29, 2010 03:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 710694)
An interesting question would be if the team would still have a time out left since they paid a T for their 5th timeout.

I would say they do. This situation isn't specifically addressed, so I'd be willing to fall back on 2-3 here.

Adam Wed Dec 29, 2010 03:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 710698)
In my very first game ever 2 days ago..we had a scorebook issue as well. Assessed a Technical.

Question: after adding the player to book, is player eligible to play in game??

Why wouldn't he be?

Judtech Wed Dec 29, 2010 03:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 710700)
Why wouldn't he be?

Academically ineligible?:p

Adam Wed Dec 29, 2010 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judtech (Post 710702)
Academically ineligible?:p

Or to steal a quote from Iowa Hawkeye football coach Kirk Ferentz regarding star running back Adam Robinson, "Academic indigestion."

The_Rookie Wed Dec 29, 2010 04:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 710700)
Why wouldn't he be?

Because he was not listed at the start of the game? Is there a difference between being on the roster eligible to play and being in the scorebook?

Eastshire Wed Dec 29, 2010 04:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 710704)
Because he was not listed at the start of the game? Is there a difference between being on the roster eligible to play and being in the scorebook?

No. Once he has been added to the book it is as if his name was included from the start of the game.

Adam Wed Dec 29, 2010 04:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 710704)
Because he was not listed at the start of the game? Is there a difference between being on the roster eligible to play and being in the scorebook?

The only reason to add him is so he can play. If he doesn't play, there's no need to add him.

Scenario: A15 comes in as a sub but isn't in the book. At the end of the quarter, long after A15 has subbed out (with no points or fouls), the table notifies you of the problem. Coach can decide not to add A15 if he's not going to play him again.

Welpe Wed Dec 29, 2010 04:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 710709)
The only reason to add him is so he can play. If he doesn't play, there's no need to add him.

Scenario: A15 comes in as a sub but isn't in the book. At the end of the quarter, long after A15 has subbed out (with no points or fouls), the table notifies you of the problem. Coach can decide not to add A15 if he's not going to play him again.

I seem to remember some constipation...I mean consternation surrounding this scenario on this forum.

The_Rookie Wed Dec 29, 2010 04:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 710709)
The only reason to add him is so he can play. If he doesn't play, there's no need to add him.

Scenario: A15 comes in as a sub but isn't in the book. At the end of the quarter, long after A15 has subbed out (with no points or fouls), the table notifies you of the problem. Coach can decide not to add A15 if he's not going to play him again.

Thanks for the clarification...one of the tips that my R showed me was to take a headcount of players during pregame and verify with coach that number and compare to the book.

Welpe Wed Dec 29, 2010 04:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 710711)
Thanks for the clarification...one of the tips that my R showed me was to take a headcount of players during pregame and verify with coach that number and compare to the book.

Yup, and do this before the 10 minute mark so you can hopefully get it fixed without having to assess a tech for it. I caught this a couple of weeks ago when I noticed the visiting team was missing a player. Turns out the coach forgot to add her to the roster.

Adam Wed Dec 29, 2010 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 710710)
I seem to remember some constipation...I mean consternation surrounding this scenario on this forum.

True, let me change it.

A15 reports to the table and the table informs the officials before play begins. Coach then has the opportunity to withdraw A15 prior to participation (perhaps his team has the ball and he desires to add the player to the book when it won't cost him a possession.)


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