Subs with multiple fouls

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So make it after all the free throws for the personal.

You could, if the rule supported it. Of course, the lack of rule support doesn't mean you can't do it; it just means you can't back it up with a rule.

Personally, I'm likely going with A in practice because I prefer to get an offending player (for the T) out ASAP if his coach is trying to help me out. But the thought process for justifying it is too difficult, so if questioned on it, I'd have to fall back on game management rather than the rule.

[JRutledge]

Why does it matter? If you bring in subs before the play can continue then who cares when you bring them in? All that matters are when the last FT is taken all the appropriate subs are in the game. Before that is irrelevant. I have never really thought much about it until now. Subs can come in to shoot a T so why worry if they come in or not if they are not shooting a T?

I think this entire thread is over-thinking an irrelevant issue. All that matters is players are in the game before the last FT. Whether it is a personal foul, a technical foul or some other kind of foul is really not going to change anything in the outcome of the game.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think this entire thread is over-thinking an irrelevant issue.

I'm so glad you offered your opinion on an irrelevant issue. Thanks.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Personally, I'm likely going with A in practice because I prefer to get an offending player (for the T) out ASAP if his coach is trying to help me out.

I think most all officials agree with this and would likely do just that. But as far as the OP goes, the subs were there before any of this happened. So they likely are for one of the other 9 players on the court. If you allow them in you may still have B1 on the floor.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think this entire thread is over-thinking an irrelevant issue.

But a great way to learn and I don't have anything better to do today?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

I think most all officials agree with this and would likely do just that. But as far as the OP goes, the subs were there before any of this happened. So they likely are for one of the other 9 players on the court. If you allow them in you may still have B1 on the floor.

True, but it's a low risk (as Rut indicates, nothing's really going to go wrong if you let them in) high reward move.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

(what if the order was reversed -- dead ball T followed by PF during one of the FTs for the T -- do we still wait until the last PF FT?)

First we would have a mess on our hands. A contact foul during a T FT sounds ugly.

IMO, allow subs before first T FT, before second T FT and before last PF FT.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

See if any of you can find something that states you can't bring the subs in as soon as the fouls are reported. Also see if you can find anything that states that you can't bring another legally reported sub(s) in after any one of the free throws in the sequence also. I don't know of any rule that says you can't but I'm sure willing to learn.

Y'all think too damn much.

Still waiting for a rules citation that states you can't bring the subs in immediately......

And y'all are still thinking too damn much.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Still waiting for a rules citation that states you can't bring the subs in immediately......

And y'all are still thinking too damn much.

And I'm waiting for the evidence that 3-3-1c doesn't apply here.

And it's in my nature.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You mean like...

See if you can find something that states a player on the floor with the ball can do anything other than pass, shoot, start a dribble, request a time-out or sit up if he's on his back.

Y'all were thinking too damn much.

You'll probably gets your when I get mine!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You'll probably gets your when I get mine!

I'd give you one except I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I forget a lot of old threads. Jog my memory.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And I'm waiting for the evidence that 3-3-1c doesn't apply here.

And it's in my nature.

The evidence is that rule refers strictly and only to multiple free throws resulting from personal fouls.

That's a completely different situation than the OP.

But carry on carrying on......

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The evidence is that rule refers strictly and only to multiple free throws resulting from personal fouls.

That's a completely different situation than the OP.

But carry on carrying on......

I still believe it should be treated as 2 separate actions. Just as rule 10 tells us to penalize both fouls of a False Double Foul separately. I will administer them separately first one then the other. I am applying 3.3.1C to multiple free throws resulting from a personal foul, then I will apply 3.3.1D to the free throws resulting from the T.

Where is that dead horse picture!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The evidence is that rule refers strictly and only to multiple free throws resulting from personal fouls.

That's a completely different situation than the OP.

But carry on carrying on......

Still looking for "only" in 3-3-1c.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Still looking for "only" in 3-3-1c.

Try looking for "technical foul" instead. And let me know if you find it. Maybe it's hiding behind Waldo.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'd give you one except I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I forget a lot of old threads. Jog my memory.

Wow...the threads aren't old....YOU ARE!