The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #151 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 02:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NB/PEI, Canada
Posts: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Yep. If teams can recruit / draft, then the shot clock makes some sense.

If you have to play with whatever kids are in your district, then you should be able to do what it takes to keep the game close / give your team the best chance to win. And, if that's playing for a low-scoring game, so be it.

I'd rather see a rule to the effect that, if a team pulls the ball out, and if the other team let's them, the coaches must get together and agree on a time put on the clock. Adjust the clock down, and re-start. No sense just standing around while the clock goes down from 6:00 to 1:00. If both teams agree, then put 1:00 on the clock and go.

(and, yes, I know there's the rule that the game can be shortened if both coaches and the R agree. So, what I think we really need is a process / mechanic to make this happen, rather than a rules change.)
I think that all games above mini or maybe middle school depending on the ages of kids involved should have shot clocks. As an official it is a hassle and something you have to keep in mind, but as an ambassador of the sport of basketball I think anything that helps improve the skill of all the players/coaches involved it is a must:

the LLaBB: HOW THE SHOT CLOCK IMPROVES PLAYER DEVELOPMENT
__________________
Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game!

Me: Thanks, but why the big rush.

Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we!
Reply With Quote
  #152 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 02:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Fair enough, Billy. How about, in their eyes, "fouling without making any effort to go for the ball is part of the game?"
Most "fans" don't have a clue about the difference between a common foul and intentional foul.....along with a whole bunch of other rules we discussed here many times.

As BillyMac said, fouling is an accepted part of late game strategy. IMHO, it is the responsibility of the officials to make sure it doesn't get out of hand, and for that to happen we need to do two things:
1. Be aware of the situation and when you know they're trying to foul, call the foul immediately, even something that we might normally pass on - don't wait and let the contact escalate.
2. Don't hesitate to call the intentional foul when it occurs - make it clear that there is a right way and wrong way to implement this strategy, and the officials are going to enforce it.

If we, as officials, are uniformly consistent on this, the coaches will be forced to teach their players the right way if they want to use this strategy, and it won't be an issue.

-----

On the subject of shot clocks, I believe that cost is a factor. Schools all over this region are facing huge budget shortfalls and having to make cuts. Another is the ability to get enough table crew together to run them for early games, particularly the sub-varsity ones. Some schools have trouble getting just a scorekeeper and game clock operator. I don't think it's much of an issue for the officials. The End of the Trail tournaments here use them along with a modified version of NCAAW rules, and I don't know any officials that have had a problem making the adjustments.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
Reply With Quote
  #153 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 02:14pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Or, they think that fouling is "part of the game" (cringe), and calling an intentional is ruining that part of that game.
It is part of the game. The NFHS has said so. If the players foul in the right way, whether they intend to foul or not, it doesn't matter.

An intentional foul should pretty much call itself and the official should be prepared to step up and make the call when it happens.
Reply With Quote
  #154 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 02:15pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTaylor View Post
1. Be aware of the situation and when you know they're trying to foul, call the foul immediately, even something that we might normally pass on - don't wait and let the contact escalate.
Bingo. If a team WANTS a foul, GIVE them the foul. I've seen official pass, pass, pass, and then the defense says, "That's not a foul? HERE'S a foul." And then all hell breaks loose.
Reply With Quote
  #155 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 02:18pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 21,758
Let Me Introduce Myself, Mac, BillyMac ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTaylor View Post
On the subject of shot clocks, I don't know any officials that have had a problem making the adjustments.
Now you know one, me. Here in my little corner of Connecticut, we use shot clocks only for prep schools, boys and girls, only for varsity games (no freshman (thirds) or junior varsity). I'm a 100% NFHS official, I know more about rocket science, and brain surgery, than I do about NCAA rules.

I only see a shot clock about once, or twice, each season. I always hope that my partner is an NCAA trained official, and/or that the table is well trained in shot clock rules, and interpretations.

I kind of know the rules, our interpreter provides a shot clock rule sheet for us. My partner and I go over this sheet during our pregame, but this nothing like experience to really understand shot clock rules, and interpretations. It's tough to get this experience working only a few shot clock games each season.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #156 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 02:54pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I know more about rocket science, and brain surgery, than I do about NCAA rules.
In the words of the Immortal Dave, when explaining a rule interp to a coach, "Hey, it's not rocket surgery".

Now the good news - Dave has come back to our local kids rec league this year. I can't wait to get some games with him. He left us for about four years, but couldn't resist our game fee increase this season, especially since he lives right in town here.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #157 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 03:29pm
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
Bingo. If a team WANTS a foul, GIVE them the foul. I've seen official pass, pass, pass, and then the defense says, "That's not a foul? HERE'S a foul." And then all hell breaks loose.
I understand your point, Rich, but isn't it wrong to reward an offending team for an illegal act?
Reply With Quote
  #158 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 04:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
I understand your point, Rich, but isn't it wrong to reward an offending team for an illegal act?
How are they being rewarded? The opponent is sent to the FT line with a chance to score.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #159 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 04:58pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
Quote:
Originally Posted by bktballref View Post
how are they being rewarded? The opponent is sent to the ft line with a chance to score.
+1
__________________
Never hit a piñata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #160 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 05:04pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 21,758
But I Didn't Call That Back In The First Period ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I've seen officials pass, pass, pass, and then the defense says, "That's not a foul? Here's a foul." And then all hell breaks loose.
Stoopid rookie officials.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #161 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 06:12pm
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
How are they being rewarded? The opponent is sent to the FT line with a chance to score.
...with the clock stopped.
Reply With Quote
  #162 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 06:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larks View Post
1) Drop 30s and fulls and go with five 45s

2) Go to two 16-min halves
It's what we play in our state....it's great. Two less times that you have to deal with end of quarter, dead ball/bench personnel T's and A/P throw-in situations.
Reply With Quote
  #163 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 08:27pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,741
This article, written by a clearly intelligent official, describes my thoughts on the subject quite well. I'm glad the person who posted this to their officiating website stole it, cause I'm not sure I would've found it otherwise:

http://www.gpboa.org/Articles/Watching%20Works.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #164 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 08:28pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
...with the clock stopped.
Until this is something that the NFHS/NCAA comes out and specifically says they want to change, I don't see the point of anyone, especially officials, tilting at windmills.
Reply With Quote
  #165 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 26, 2010, 08:45pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
Bingo. If a team WANTS a foul, GIVE them the foul.
I agree, but there are limits. I've seen a player literally reach out and grab his opponent's jersey with 2 fingers, then look at me expectantly. That's intentional or nothing, usually nothing.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rule change? Mark Padgett Basketball 21 Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:44am
Rule change for 7.08(a)(1) SanDiegoSteve Baseball 10 Wed May 16, 2007 01:27pm
Rule Change #2 VaCoach Basketball 24 Sun Feb 05, 2006 05:57am
ASA Rule Change IRISHMAFIA Softball 0 Mon Sep 26, 2005 06:29pm
Did they change the rule? kschau Basketball 4 Thu Dec 14, 2000 04:36pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:37am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1