Quite the oddness

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Had something interesting happen today.

Girls varsity game. About 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. "Visiting" team is up about 12 or 14 points. They are pressing, albeit a pretty weak press. First line of defense really is set at the top of the key and they are running a trap. "Home" team can't handle it very well though and is getting pretty frustrated with it. After V scores, Home HEad Coach stands up and tells his player throwing the ball in to throw it straight to the other team, which she does, and it results in an easy layup. I didn't catch on right away, but then he did it again. She complies again.

How would you handle this situation? I'll fill in the rest of the details after a little discussion.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Had something interesting happen today.

Girls varsity game. About 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. "Visiting" team is up about 12 or 14 points. They are pressing, albeit a pretty weak press. First line of defense really is set at the top of the key and they are running a trap. "Home" team can't handle it very well though and is getting pretty frustrated with it. After V scores, Home HEad Coach stands up and tells his player throwing the ball in to throw it straight to the other team, which she does, and it results in an easy layup. I didn't catch on right away, but then he did it again. She complies again.

How would you handle this situation? I'll fill in the rest of the details after a little discussion.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

One of our finer camp clinicians is quoted as saying, "It's not up to us who wins or loses the game, just so they do so quickly."

"Travesty of the game" issues aside, sounds like either the game or the situation would bring things to a resolution quickly and uneventfully. Either the game would end or the pressing coach would finally give in and lay off. Either way, your role as the arbiter of the game may prompt you to just roll with the flow and let things play out by doing nothing.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Judtech

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

You're kidding. Right?

There is no part of the "game" that involves repeatedly giving the other team possession because you're pissed.

Let something like this keep going and you're going to have a circus on your hands and probably much worse.

[Judtech]

And what part of the game is it to run up the score?
What part of the game is there to holding the ball when you are behind?
In the first you are going to have a zoo on your hands if not more so. A team could be getting revenge from a perceived slight before or even in a different sport.
And finally, where does it say that a team CAN'T purposefully give the ball to the other team? Both coaches obviously have problems but I am not sure how any of it affects the officiating duties.

[bainsey]

I'm having deja vu.

I've heard stories of a team purposely giving the ball to the opponents for exact reasons such as this. In every case, the team pressing backed off. Never have I heard an official getting involved.

I'd let this one police itself. This is not a travesty; it's merely annoying, if anything.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

travesty: A false, absurd, or distorted representation of something

While some of your examples may be demonstrations of questionable strategy or sportsmanship, none is entirely contrary to the nature of the game like the situation in the OP.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by just another ref

travesty: A false, absurd, or distorted representation of something

While some of your examples may be demonstrations of questionable strategy or sportsmanship, none is entirely contrary to the nature of the game like the situation in the OP.

JAR That is fine. But a case could be made that running up a score is an absurd representation of the game. It definetly gives a distorted representation of the game. What about the team who is down big, but refuses to initiate any offense? That is absurd.
Passing to the other team on purpose is bad strategy as well.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

JAR That is fine. But a case could be made that running up a score is an absurd representation of the game.

Still not a good comparison. It is not uncommon for a coach to have his team play the same way all the time, regardless of the score.

[Adam]

Passing to the other team isn't even bad strategy; it's applied sarcasm.

A team that's down and stalling could be trying to keep the score low so they have a chance at the end.
A team that's up big and pressing could have valid reasons for doing so; respect for their opponent could be among them.

That said, I still don't think I'd do anything unless it continued past more than a handful of times. At that point, I'd ask the coach if he'd just like to forfeit.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Judtech

JAR That is fine. But a case could be made that running up a score is an absurd representation of the game. It definetly gives a distorted representation of the game. What about the team who is down big, but refuses to initiate any offense? That is absurd.
Passing to the other team on purpose is bad strategy as well.

Scoring IS what a team is supposed to do. Continuing to score is generally expected.

Being down big and holding the ball could be an attempt at a secondary goal of holding their opponents to under a certain number of points.


Deliberately turning the ball over has no valid purpose.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Had something interesting happen today.

Girls varsity game. About 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. "Visiting" team is up about 12 or 14 points. They are pressing, albeit a pretty weak press. First line of defense really is set at the top of the key and they are running a trap. "Home" team can't handle it very well though and is getting pretty frustrated with it. After V scores, Home HEad Coach stands up and tells his player throwing the ball in to throw it straight to the other team, which she does, and it results in an easy layup. I didn't catch on right away, but then he did it again. She complies again.

How would you handle this situation? I'll fill in the rest of the details after a little discussion.

Given that the coach is instructing them to do so (not not that the other team is stealing the ball) one team has clearly decided to no longer play the game and is basically surrendering. After 3-4 times, I might have a brief word with the home coach regarding ending the game. I might even just call it off without consulting the coach. That is not basketball and he's making a mockery of the game.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Given that the coach is instructing them to do so (not not that the other team is stealing the ball) one team has clearly decided to no longer play the game and is basically surrendering. After 3-4 times, I might have a brief word with the home coach regarding ending the game. I might even just call it off without consulting the coach. That is not basketball and he's making a mockery of the game.

+1

I would probably warn first.

Rule 5-4-1:
"The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after
being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a game if
any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any
technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other
acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to which the game is forfeited
is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall stand. If this team is not ahead,
the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its favor."

[grunewar]

What was the attitude/reaction of the players and parents of the H Team while this was going on? Were they going nuts? Parents yelling? Booing? Anything at all? Just curious.

Inquiring minds want to know?