Quite the oddness

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Had something interesting happen today.

Girls varsity game. About 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. "Visiting" team is up about 12 or 14 points. They are pressing, albeit a pretty weak press. First line of defense really is set at the top of the key and they are running a trap. "Home" team can't handle it very well though and is getting pretty frustrated with it. After V scores, Home HEad Coach stands up and tells his player throwing the ball in to throw it straight to the other team, which she does, and it results in an easy layup. I didn't catch on right away, but then he did it again. She complies again.

How would you handle this situation? I'll fill in the rest of the details after a little discussion.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Had something interesting happen today.

Girls varsity game. About 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. "Visiting" team is up about 12 or 14 points. They are pressing, albeit a pretty weak press. First line of defense really is set at the top of the key and they are running a trap. "Home" team can't handle it very well though and is getting pretty frustrated with it. After V scores, Home HEad Coach stands up and tells his player throwing the ball in to throw it straight to the other team, which she does, and it results in an easy layup. I didn't catch on right away, but then he did it again. She complies again.

How would you handle this situation? I'll fill in the rest of the details after a little discussion.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Had something interesting happen today.

Girls varsity game. About 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. "Visiting" team is up about 12 or 14 points. They are pressing, albeit a pretty weak press. First line of defense really is set at the top of the key and they are running a trap. "Home" team can't handle it very well though and is getting pretty frustrated with it. After V scores, Home HEad Coach stands up and tells his player throwing the ball in to throw it straight to the other team, which she does, and it results in an easy layup. I didn't catch on right away, but then he did it again. She complies again.

How would you handle this situation? I'll fill in the rest of the details after a little discussion.

Given that the coach is instructing them to do so (not not that the other team is stealing the ball) one team has clearly decided to no longer play the game and is basically surrendering. After 3-4 times, I might have a brief word with the home coach regarding ending the game. I might even just call it off without consulting the coach. That is not basketball and he's making a mockery of the game.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Given that the coach is instructing them to do so (not not that the other team is stealing the ball) one team has clearly decided to no longer play the game and is basically surrendering. After 3-4 times, I might have a brief word with the home coach regarding ending the game. I might even just call it off without consulting the coach. That is not basketball and he's making a mockery of the game.

+1

I would probably warn first.

Rule 5-4-1:
"The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after
being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a game if
any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any
technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other
acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to which the game is forfeited
is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall stand. If this team is not ahead,
the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its favor."

[grunewar]

What was the attitude/reaction of the players and parents of the H Team while this was going on? Were they going nuts? Parents yelling? Booing? Anything at all? Just curious.

Inquiring minds want to know?

[Scrapper1]

This actually happened in an NBA All-Star game back in the '80s. I won't remember it exactly right, but I think the West was up big in the last minute of the game and an East player stole the ball and made a big dunk. So Magic (I think) took the ball out of bounds and passed it right back to the East player, who again dunked it. And Magic again threw the throw-in right to the East player. Wish I could remember it more exactly. . .

[WhistlesAndStripes]

OK, first off, I forgot to mention the reason I called them "Home" and "Visiting" is because it was a preseason tourney and neither school involved was the host school.

To continue the story, here's how it played out:

After the second occurrence, V was fouled going up for a shot and my partner called the foul from the lead position. He headed up to report the foul and I headed down to administer the FTs. As I was heading down to the baseline, I noticed the clock was still running. I went over to the table to correct the clock, and after doing so, stopped to discuss it briefly with my partner. THis is his first year working varsity games. I explained what I saw, and said that if it happened again I would warn the coach, and then T if he continued beyond that. I went down to administer the FTs and my partner remained as the trail, table side.

After the 2nd FT, the ball was tipped out on the sideline on my side with V retaining possession, throwin coming in around the 3 point line extended on the sideline, forcing a switch.

As my partner headed to the baseline, he stopped to talk to the coach. I could tell that he was warning the coach about this, and the conversation lasted about 30 seconds. I got the ball back in play, and ended up calling a foul on a jump shot resulting in 2 FTs for the visitors. This puts me back table side. After the 2nd free throw, V sets up for their press again, and as Home team throws the ball in, Home HC turns to the V bench, calls the V HC by name, and asks, "How many points do you want?" WHACK!!

I call the T and tell the coach he's not going to talk to the opposing bench like that. We shoot the FTs and the the half plays out. Halftime score is 25-8.

Coach approaches us as we're leaving the court to defend his actions regarding instructing his players to throw it in to the other team. I told him that he was instructing his team not to play, and I was not going to allow that just because he had a beef with the other coach continuing to press. I let him know that I felt he was making a travesty of the game.

I pulled out my rulebook at halftime and looked up the travesty paragraph as has been quoted. I wasn't ready to call a forfeit. What I was willing to do was dump the coach and give an assistant an opportunity to let the girls play ball before callign a forfeit.

The second half was pretty uneventful. V came out with no full court press, and ended up winning by about 30.

As I was entering the gym to watch some of the next game, I saw this coach, and he approached me and said he'd like to talk to me before I left. There was plenty of time, so we found a place to sit down and talk. We had a pretty productive 15 minute discussion. He still didn't think he was wrong in any way. He felt that any team that was "in control" shouldn't be pressing like they were. I told him that was up to the other coach to decide when he wanted to call off the dogs. I certainly wasn't going to tell him he had to call off the dogs early in the 2nd quarter with only a 12 point lead.

To answer a couple of other questions. There was no real visible crowd reaction to any of this. In our postgame discussion, he said that he had several parents who supported his decision, and "they know what they're talking about, because we are a 'basketball town.' " I reminded him that for MANY years, the school he was coaching at had been a state powerhouse at their level, and had often been on the giving end of these full court press, run up the score kind of games. His response to that was, "That was a different coach, not me," and I said if you want to claim "basketball town" then you have to accept all that comes with it. Again, it was a civil, productive conversation, never got heated in any way.

As the teams came out for the second half, the V player making the throwin apologized to my partner for the behavior of her coach.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

One of our finer camp clinicians is quoted as saying, "It's not up to us who wins or loses the game, just so they do so quickly."

"Travesty of the game" issues aside, sounds like either the game or the situation would bring things to a resolution quickly and uneventfully. Either the game would end or the pressing coach would finally give in and lay off. Either way, your role as the arbiter of the game may prompt you to just roll with the flow and let things play out by doing nothing.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Judtech

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

You're kidding. Right?

There is no part of the "game" that involves repeatedly giving the other team possession because you're pissed.

Let something like this keep going and you're going to have a circus on your hands and probably much worse.

[Judtech]

And what part of the game is it to run up the score?
What part of the game is there to holding the ball when you are behind?
In the first you are going to have a zoo on your hands if not more so. A team could be getting revenge from a perceived slight before or even in a different sport.
And finally, where does it say that a team CAN'T purposefully give the ball to the other team? Both coaches obviously have problems but I am not sure how any of it affects the officiating duties.

[bainsey]

I'm having deja vu.

I've heard stories of a team purposely giving the ball to the opponents for exact reasons such as this. In every case, the team pressing backed off. Never have I heard an official getting involved.

I'd let this one police itself. This is not a travesty; it's merely annoying, if anything.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

travesty: A false, absurd, or distorted representation of something

While some of your examples may be demonstrations of questionable strategy or sportsmanship, none is entirely contrary to the nature of the game like the situation in the OP.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by just another ref

travesty: A false, absurd, or distorted representation of something

While some of your examples may be demonstrations of questionable strategy or sportsmanship, none is entirely contrary to the nature of the game like the situation in the OP.

JAR That is fine. But a case could be made that running up a score is an absurd representation of the game. It definetly gives a distorted representation of the game. What about the team who is down big, but refuses to initiate any offense? That is absurd.
Passing to the other team on purpose is bad strategy as well.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

JAR That is fine. But a case could be made that running up a score is an absurd representation of the game.

Still not a good comparison. It is not uncommon for a coach to have his team play the same way all the time, regardless of the score.