Quite the oddness

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Had something interesting happen today.

Girls varsity game. About 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. "Visiting" team is up about 12 or 14 points. They are pressing, albeit a pretty weak press. First line of defense really is set at the top of the key and they are running a trap. "Home" team can't handle it very well though and is getting pretty frustrated with it. After V scores, Home HEad Coach stands up and tells his player throwing the ball in to throw it straight to the other team, which she does, and it results in an easy layup. I didn't catch on right away, but then he did it again. She complies again.

How would you handle this situation? I'll fill in the rest of the details after a little discussion.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

One of our finer camp clinicians is quoted as saying, "It's not up to us who wins or loses the game, just so they do so quickly."

"Travesty of the game" issues aside, sounds like either the game or the situation would bring things to a resolution quickly and uneventfully. Either the game would end or the pressing coach would finally give in and lay off. Either way, your role as the arbiter of the game may prompt you to just roll with the flow and let things play out by doing nothing.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Judtech

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

You're kidding. Right?

There is no part of the "game" that involves repeatedly giving the other team possession because you're pissed.

Let something like this keep going and you're going to have a circus on your hands and probably much worse.

[Judtech]

And what part of the game is it to run up the score?
What part of the game is there to holding the ball when you are behind?
In the first you are going to have a zoo on your hands if not more so. A team could be getting revenge from a perceived slight before or even in a different sport.
And finally, where does it say that a team CAN'T purposefully give the ball to the other team? Both coaches obviously have problems but I am not sure how any of it affects the officiating duties.

[bainsey]

I'm having deja vu.

I've heard stories of a team purposely giving the ball to the opponents for exact reasons such as this. In every case, the team pressing backed off. Never have I heard an official getting involved.

I'd let this one police itself. This is not a travesty; it's merely annoying, if anything.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

travesty: A false, absurd, or distorted representation of something

While some of your examples may be demonstrations of questionable strategy or sportsmanship, none is entirely contrary to the nature of the game like the situation in the OP.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by just another ref

travesty: A false, absurd, or distorted representation of something

While some of your examples may be demonstrations of questionable strategy or sportsmanship, none is entirely contrary to the nature of the game like the situation in the OP.

JAR That is fine. But a case could be made that running up a score is an absurd representation of the game. It definetly gives a distorted representation of the game. What about the team who is down big, but refuses to initiate any offense? That is absurd.
Passing to the other team on purpose is bad strategy as well.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

JAR That is fine. But a case could be made that running up a score is an absurd representation of the game.

Still not a good comparison. It is not uncommon for a coach to have his team play the same way all the time, regardless of the score.

[Adam]

Passing to the other team isn't even bad strategy; it's applied sarcasm.

A team that's down and stalling could be trying to keep the score low so they have a chance at the end.
A team that's up big and pressing could have valid reasons for doing so; respect for their opponent could be among them.

That said, I still don't think I'd do anything unless it continued past more than a handful of times. At that point, I'd ask the coach if he'd just like to forfeit.

[ODJ]

I have a warning, not a T, and I certainly don't have a conversation with him in a secluded spot.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Judtech

JAR That is fine. But a case could be made that running up a score is an absurd representation of the game. It definetly gives a distorted representation of the game. What about the team who is down big, but refuses to initiate any offense? That is absurd.
Passing to the other team on purpose is bad strategy as well.

Scoring IS what a team is supposed to do. Continuing to score is generally expected.

Being down big and holding the ball could be an attempt at a secondary goal of holding their opponents to under a certain number of points.


Deliberately turning the ball over has no valid purpose.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Scoring IS what a team is supposed to do. Continuing to score is generally expected.

Being down big and holding the ball could be an attempt at a secondary goal of holding their opponents to under a certain number of points.


Deliberately turning the ball over has no valid purpose.

+1

Pressing with a big lead and running up the score is a coach's decision. Neither has got anything to do with us. Whether we like it or not, it's part of the game and we have to deal with the fallout. No matter what, the teams are still expected to play. If there's any complaints, let the league or governing body deal with it.

Deliberately giving the ball to the opposing team is not an accepted part of the game though. Giving the other team the ball is not playing the game; it's making a farce out of the game.

I'd warn and then forfeit.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Scoring IS what a team is supposed to do. Continuing to score is generally expected.

Being down big and holding the ball could be an attempt at a secondary goal of holding their opponents to under a certain number of points.


Deliberately turning the ball over has no valid purpose.

Your first and second point sort of contradict each other. If you are SUPPOSED to score then why stall? In fact, if you pass the ball to the other team then THEY are scoring, so it falls under your first point. Giving the ball to the other team CAN serve a purpose. It could embarass the pressing coach and thus they called the press off. Why isn't that a valid reason? Who knows, the coach who was pressing may get fed up and take THEIR team off the floor forfiet? Far fetched maybe, but who is to say?
To JUR's point, if pressing is a coaches decision, the OP said that the coach wanted his team to pass to the other team. THAT is a coach's decision as well. I still don't see much of a difference between what that coach did and coaches who deliberately press clearly inferior teams. The pressing coach is making a travesty of the game similar to the OP coach, just in a different way and one we see too often, IMO. It the coach wants to forfiet, they can call a TO and/or take their team off the floor, they don't need any help from me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Your first and second point sort of contradict each other. If you are SUPPOSED to score then why stall? In fact, if you pass the ball to the other team then THEY are scoring, so it falls under your first point. Giving the ball to the other team CAN serve a purpose. It could embarass the pressing coach and thus they called the press off. Why isn't that a valid reason? Who knows, the coach who was pressing may get fed up and take THEIR team off the floor forfiet? Far fetched maybe, but who is to say?
To JUR's point, if pressing is a coaches decision, the OP said that the coach wanted his team to pass to the other team. THAT is a coach's decision as well. I still don't see much of a difference between what that coach did and coaches who deliberately press clearly inferior teams. The pressing coach is making a travesty of the game similar to the OP coach, just in a different way and one we see too often, IMO. It the coach wants to forfiet, they can call a TO and/or take their team off the floor, they don't need any help from me.

Question: How many times would you permit this before stepping in?