Game Over

[chseagle]

I'm wishing we had a similar regulation here, however we do not.

In The 2009-2011 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual, it states:

"4.0.2 Selection of Scorer and Timer:
A. Adults: A high school student or one of last year’s graduates will have the interest and enthusiasm but may lack poise, impartiality and judgment.
B. Experience: Choose someone who has had some playing, coaching or officiating experience.
C. Faculty: If faculty men or women are available for these jobs, they usually do the best work, although it is not a guarantee.
D. Reliable: Choose men or women who can and will be present at every home game. It may be an honor to act as timer or scorer, but it’s not an honor that should be passed around with each game.
E. Good Judgment: Above all, choose someone with plenty of poise, good judgment, a sense of impartiality and one who you are sure will be able to forget the score and concentrate instead on the job."

Why don't all state & local associations enforce this? I realize that it's just recommendations, however can't officials (through their local associations) ask that these be followed?

Why is this only listed in the officials' manual & not anywhere else?

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

This is very simple-Score in the books when officials leave the floor stands.If it is tied play overtime-I agree that a notation on the scorebook and report to your local assignor is also in order.I would be incredibly embarrassed if I was the scoreboard operator and home scorekeeper.Apparently neither of them has the concept of communicating to make sure the board and books match.It is completely unacceptable to be 1 pt off of what the books have let alone 5. If I were AD of the host school both these staffers would be relieved of their duties for some time and possibly permanently.
It also begs the question:Were these students or adults running this table? For the most part schools here (private) use adults in every table position (scorekeeper,scoreboard/game clock operator,shot clock operator).The schools that do use students do a pretty good job for the most part and we rarely have issues with their job performance(usually it comes with the shot clock-did team control exist or not? that sort of thing).CIF-SS,our sanctioning body,requires all table personnel during postseason competition to be adults.Here coaches jump all over us if we give points to the wrong side even when we are in the process of changing it.

+1

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I'm wishing we had a similar regulation here, however we do not.

In The 2009-2011 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual, it states:

"4.0.2 Selection of Scorer and Timer:
A. Adults: A high school student or one of last year’s graduates will have the interest and enthusiasm but may lack poise, impartiality and judgment.
B. Experience: Choose someone who has had some playing, coaching or officiating experience.
C. Faculty: If faculty men or women are available for these jobs, they usually do the best work, although it is not a guarantee.
D. Reliable: Choose men or women who can and will be present at every home game. It may be an honor to act as timer or scorer, but it’s not an honor that should be passed around with each game.
E. Good Judgment: Above all, choose someone with plenty of poise, good judgment, a sense of impartiality and one who you are sure will be able to forget the score and concentrate instead on the job."

Why don't all state & local associations enforce this? I realize that it's just recommendations, however can't officials (through their local associations) ask that these be followed?

Why is this only listed in the officials' manual & not anywhere else?



+1

Where else would you have this recommendation be?

Also, you generally have a table that fits all those criteria for varsity games. It's rare that a table isn't component at that level. Anything below that, it's a matter of JUST having someone to do all that...whether qualified or not. There's just simply not enough qualified people who are willing to do a freshmen B girls game.

[chseagle]

In the appendix of the rules book as well.

Sure most sub-varsity contests not all the rules are strictly enforced, but why is that?

Concerning having qualified people do table for all levels, it could be done if those selected to do table didn't care about Varsity only.

The person we have do Varsity timing can easily do the JV game before, however she never shows up to the gym until the 4th quarter of the JV game in Gym 1 or she is assisting the concession stand. Apparently she gets paid only to do the Varsity games & so has no interest to assist with the other games.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Where else would you have this recommendation be?

Also, you generally have a table that fits all those criteria for varsity games. It's rare that a table isn't component at that level. Anything below that, it's a matter of JUST having someone to do all that...whether qualified or not. There's just simply not enough qualified people who are willing to do a freshmen B girls game.

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

In the appendix of the rules book as well.

Sure most sub-varsity contests not all the rules are strictly enforced, but why is that?

Concerning having qualified people do table for all levels, it could be done if those selected to do table didn't care about Varsity only.

The person we have do Varsity timing can easily do the JV game before, however she never shows up to the gym until the 4th quarter of the JV game in Gym 1 or she is assisting the concession stand. Apparently she gets paid only to do the Varsity games & so has no interest to assist with the other games.

You won't find many associations that will mandate adults for sub-varsity because..well its sub-varsity. While the games are important to those playing the game, it's still not as important as varsity in the grand scheme of things.

I guess if you wanted to get more adults to do the lower level games, you could make sure they get paid for those games. Even still, some people wouldn't want to do it. You can place restrictions like mandating someone do two games, but when that pool of those that want to be at the table is small as it is, placing restrictions doesn't help. Plus paying an adult for the sub-varsity as well would be an additional cost that schools would have to pay. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather have 3 officials for varsity than have that money go to having an adult for a sub-varsity game.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Chseagle,
You have to realize that at a lot of schools people serve in multiple roles.

For instance at our school:
*The timer and shot clock operator work all 4 games in a night (JV Girls,JV Boys,Varsity Girls,Varsity Boys-in order).

*I handle the score keeping duties for both varsity teams in addition to serving as JV girls statistician.For the JV Boys game I prep for my varsity games while serving as visiting team/official host.

*Additionally I report our girls scores to the appropriate media outlets and record the statistics to Maxpreps.com along with putting out a league-wide update.

PM me and I'll give you some recommendations with regards to making sure both gyms are staffed with qualified personnel regardless of level.

[chseagle]

The only time I have gotten paid to do Varsity was at 3A/4A Regionals. The one Varsity game I did last year as timer at CHS I was volunteer. All the time I do shot clock for Varsity, I'm volunteer.

I've been out of high school for 10 years, & could really care less if I was getting paid or not. I do it as a service to the school/community.

Others unfortunately only care about lining their pockets

The only pay anyone working table should get is free admission & free snacks from the concession stand, nothing more. As far as I'm concerned the only ones that should be getting paid are the floor officials since they have to go through all the training & certification to be there.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You won't find many associations that will mandate adults for sub-varsity because..well its sub-varsity. While the games are important to those playing the game, it's still not as important as varsity in the grand scheme of things.

I guess if you wanted to get more adults to do the lower level games, you could make sure they get paid for those games. Even still, some people wouldn't want to do it. You can place restrictions like mandating someone do two games, but when that pool of those that want to be at the table is small as it is, placing restrictions doesn't help. Plus paying an adult for the sub-varsity as well would be an additional cost that schools would have to pay. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather have 3 officials for varsity than have that money go to having an adult for a sub-varsity game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You won't find many associations that will mandate adults for sub-varsity because..well its sub-varsity. While the games are important to those playing the game, it's still not as important as varsity in the grand scheme of things.

I guess if you wanted to get more adults to do the lower level games, you could make sure they get paid for those games. Even still, some people wouldn't want to do it. You can place restrictions like mandating someone do two games, but when that pool of those that want to be at the table is small as it is, placing restrictions doesn't help. Plus paying an adult for the sub-varsity as well would be an additional cost that schools would have to pay. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather have 3 officials for varsity than have that money go to having an adult for a sub-varsity game.

It's just like those who say, "We need good officials to work the JV games" but the truth is that those who work varsity games typically are working varsity games and on the nights they're not, they're enjoying a night off.

[APG]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's just like those who say, "We need good officials to work the JV games" but the truth is that those who work varsity games typically are working varsity games and on the nights they're not, they're enjoying a night off.

Totally agree!

[chseagle]

Yeah, more often than not, Varsity level officials only work Varsity games. Although there are still a few out there that work both Sub-V & V.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's just like those who say, "We need good officials to work the JV games" but the truth is that those who work varsity games typically are working varsity games and on the nights they're not, they're enjoying a night off.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's just like those who say, "We need good officials to work the JV games" but the truth is that those who work varsity games typically are working varsity games and on the nights they're not, they're enjoying a night off.

Not that way here. You're expected to work games at any level assigned. Refuse too many and you may find yourself losing future assignments.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Where else would you have this recommendation be?

The constitution? Or at least the Federalist Papers.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Where else would you have this recommendation be?

The Gospel of chseagle, Chapter 4, Verses 1-2.

[chseagle]

I thought it was the Gospel of Jurassic, Chapter 1, verses 19-21?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The Gospel of chseagle, Chapter 4, Verses 1-2.

[chseagle]

Thanks for the idea of writing a book about table operations, now I just need to find some co-Authors.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The Gospel of chseagle, Chapter 4, Verses 1-2.

[CHSLadyEagle]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Thanks for the idea of writing a book about table operations, now I just need to find some co-Authors.

I'll Co-Author however we'd still need a few officials to assist with rules citations & game situations.

Although I'm in the process of becoming an official.

Just this year alone I've seen my fair share of bad scorers, & have even had to coach them while working as timer.

Yeah I realize I rarely am on here, I like observing more than anything.