Contact, Wait for It, Miss, Tweet.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

This is basically what I'm talking about.

Lets say A1 takes a turnaround jump shot at the free throw line. You're the Trail. You see B1 make contact with A1's arm. Should you wait to see if the contact "altered the shot" before you blow your whistle? Personally, if I see that, I blow the whistle and call the foul without worrying about whether or not the shot was altered. If it goes in we shoot one, if not we'll shoot two.

I will just speak for me and what I do. First of all I need to know the defender did something wrong. I think we call a lot of fouls on defenders when they did nothing wrong.

That being said the trajectory of the flight of the ball does have something to do with if the contact was significant or a foul IMHO. Especially if I do not see all the contact or think the contact was not significant at the time.

Peace

[bainsey]

Hmmm. I go away for several hours, and find you guys have been busy! I appreciate the responses.

If it helps, I'll offer a little clarity. Of course, I'm not talking about contact that so obvious that a competent official would call a foul. This isn't about clamping the shooter's arm. A fair example here is taking a swipe at the ball, and making unnecessary contact with the shooter's arm.

If I'm reading the replies correctly, I see there are several that would never, ever wait to see if a shot falls to determine whether a foul is called. Others are simply saying, "it depends."

There's been some talk about advantageous vs. marginal contact. Let me see if this changes anyone's answers...

A-1 shoots, B-2 makes marginal contact on A-1's arm, no whistle yet, ball bounces off the rim, tweet.

Does that make a difference in your original answer?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

There's been some talk about advantageous vs. marginal contact. Let me see if this changes anyone's answers...

A-1 shoots, B-2 makes marginal contact on A-1's arm, no whistle yet, ball bounces off the rim, tweet.

Does that make a difference in your original answer?

Nope. I consider the result of the play. I will also say the closer to the basket this is more likely to be the case. The further away from the basket it is more likely I will not care about the ball going in. Reason, there is more contact around the basket legal and illegal. I might have to take an extra second to determine if that contact near the basket made much of a difference.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

1) There's been some talk about advantageous vs. marginal contact.


2)A-1 shoots, B-2 makes marginal contact on A-1's arm, no whistle yet, ball bounces off the rim, tweet.
Does that make a difference in your original answer?

1) Advantageous contact = illegal contact
Marginal contact = a judgment call as to whether the contact was illegal or incidental
It's that simple, bainsey.

2) The original answers do not apply to this situation because this situation in no way resembles your original situation. In your original situation, YOU told us the contact was illegal. That means there was NO judgment needed on our part. Illegal contact is a foul.


You're not offering clarity at all imo. Instead, you're putting forth 2 very different situations for comment.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

A-1 shoots, B-2 makes marginal contact on A-1's arm, no whistle yet, ball bounces off the rim, tweet.

It is, was and always will be a judgment call as to whether that "marginal" contact was illegal or incidental in nature. Having said that, in my experience a very slight contact on a player's shooting arm can greatly influence the accuracy of the shot, and especially so on a jump shot. The oldest trick in the book is a defender making a quick tap on the shooting elbow on a jump shot. That quick, wee touch can put the shot into the sixth row. Sooooo.....basically you have to make up your mind as to whether your "marginal" contact affected the shot or not. If you decide it did, the marginal contact should be ruled illegal contact. If you decide it didn't, the marginal contact should be called incidental contact. But....as I said above, it doesn't take much contact on a players shooting arm to affect a shot. If I see contact on the shooting arm on a jump shot, I'll usually call the foul. You also have to make the same decision for contact on a shooter's arm when the shooter is taking it to the hole. In that case, it might not be a bad idea to wait a beat to see whether the ball goes or not. The same holds true for contact on the shooter's body. No matter what though, it still remains as being a straight judgment call. The biggest recommendation I can give anyone is to just try to be as consistent as possible at both ends of the court from beginning to end.

There ya go, bainsey. I tried to answer both of your questions.