Intentional Foul???

[Camron Rust]

New play...

A1 attempts a bounce pass to A4. Pass is low. A4 reaches down to get the ball. B4, getting caught out of position, kicks at the ball like many defenders do to stop a pass into the post that they can't get with their hands. A4 grabs the ball just before B4's foot gets there and B4's foot gets A4's arm instead of the ball.

Thoughts? Intentional or just common?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

New play...

A1 attempts a bounce pass to A4. Pass is low. A4 reaches down to get the ball. B4, getting caught out of position, kicks at the ball like many defenders do to stop a pass into the post that they can't get with their hands. A4 grabs the ball just before B4's foot gets there and B4's foot gets A4's arm instead of the ball.

Thoughts? Intentional or just common?

I am stuck in limbo again...I can see justification to call it either way, and would really be OK with either one being called. I must be "Intentional Foul Confused".

I need some of Padgett's meds...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

New play...

A1 attempts a bounce pass to A4. Pass is low. A4 reaches down to get the ball. B4, getting caught out of position, kicks at the ball like many defenders do to stop a pass into the post that they can't get with their hands. A4 grabs the ball just before B4's foot gets there and B4's foot gets A4's arm instead of the ball.

Thoughts? Intentional or just common?

First thought, common here. Gotta say, it would be hard to swallow the whistle if A4 was to play through it and have an easy shot, though.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

New play...

A1 attempts a bounce pass to A4. Pass is low. A4 reaches down to get the ball. B4, getting caught out of position, kicks at the ball like many defenders do to stop a pass into the post that they can't get with their hands. A4 grabs the ball just before B4's foot gets there and B4's foot gets A4's arm instead of the ball.

Thoughts? Intentional or just common?

My intuition is that this is a common foul. I guess I'd distinguish it from the OP based on the fact that in your play B4 intends to kick a pass rather than a ball in player possession. It's a clearer case of accidental contact.

On the other hand, it's still not a "basketball play," since there's no way for the kick to legally contact the ball. It is more common, however, and maybe that warrants some leeway.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by mbyron

My intuition is that this is a common foul. I guess I'd distinguish it from the OP based on the fact that in your play B4 intends to kick a pass rather than a ball in player possession. It's a clearer case of accidental contact.

On the other hand, it's still not a "basketball play," since there's no way for the kick to legally contact the ball. It is more common, however, and maybe that warrants some leeway.

It can't be THAT common. I have rarely, if ever, seen it occur.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

It can't be THAT common. I have rarely, if ever, seen it occur.

B's action, kicking a ball near the floor, is more common than kicking at a ball held by an opponent above his waist.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

My intuition is that this is a common foul. I guess I'd distinguish it from the OP based on the fact that in your play B4 intends to kick a pass rather than a ball in player possession. It's a clearer case of accidental contact.

On the other hand, it's still not a "basketball play," since there's no way for the kick to legally contact the ball. It is more common, however, and maybe that warrants some leeway.

I think you are misconstruing "basketball play".


What is or is not a "basketball play" doesn't necessarily depend on whether the action is legal or not but depends on whether the action is generally relative to the play of the game.

• Knocking the ball out of your opponents hands IS a basketball play.
• Using the feet to stop a pass IS a basketball play---it happens regularly and has specified consequences.
• Agressively defending a shot from a poor position knowing that you'll get called for foul is an illegal play but is still a basketball play.
• Two guys posting up and one throwing a hard knee/elbow into the other's gut is NOT a basketball play.
• A player running down the court trailing a fast break by 40 feet and chucking the nearest opponent is NOT a basketball play.
• A player grabbing another player's ponytail and yanking it is NOT a basketball play.
• Using your feet to stop the ball (even in another player's hands) is a basketball play....with defined consequences. I've seen this happen a few times over the years in the context of a loose ball where one player gets the ball and the other is kicking at the ball (not viciously or anything, just trying to keep the other one from getting it).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

New play...

A1 attempts a bounce pass to A4. Pass is low. A4 reaches down to get the ball. B4, getting caught out of position, kicks at the ball like many defenders do to stop a pass into the post that they can't get with their hands. A4 grabs the ball just before B4's foot gets there and B4's foot gets A4's arm instead of the ball.

Thoughts? Intentional or just common?

This play could be called a "basketball" type play, where the other one couldn't... imo. Soooooo, it goes right back to basics. And the basic premise is that all intentional and flagrant foul calls are judgment calls.

This one could be judged a common personal foul imo.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

This play could be called a "basketball" type play, where the other one couldn't... imo. Soooooo, it goes right back to basics. And the basic premise is that all intentional and flagrant foul calls are judgment calls.

This one could be judged a common personal foul imo.

You are wise beyond your years.

(Wait a minute, can anyone ever be THAT wise?...)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

You are wise beyond your years.

(Wait a minute, can anyone ever be THAT wise?...)

How much is ∞ + 1?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by mbyron

How much is ∞ + 1?

Same as ∞ - 1?