Intentional Foul???

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Camron, I think it WAS contact designed to neutralize an advantageous position. The defender was clearly faked out and sailing past - she knew she was beat - and reached back with her foot and kicked the shooter on the arm. Seems to me that she did it exactly to neutralize the opponents advantage. That's why I'm kicking myself for NOT calling it Intentional.

This is a good point, and I'm inclined to go with official's judgment here. If you think it was an attempt to neutralize an opponent's obviously advantageous position, then go ahead with the INT.

But I disagree with the idea of calling an INT just because it's "not a basketball play." There's no rules basis for that idea, and it's not synonymous with neutralizing obvious advantage.

But "not a basketball play" IS relevant: the defender loses all benefit of the doubt in a play like this, and could be hit with an INT or flagrant foul -- especially in a "warm" game, kicking could easily be interpreted as fighting.

So although "not a basketball play" does not by itself warrant the INT, I think it lowers the bar for INT or flagrant.

[Adam]

Would you call an INT if the defender used a fist instead? Assuming they missed the ball and hit the shooter's arm instead, but did not cause excessive contact?

I'm inclined to go with an INT here for the same reason it's a violation to kick or punch the ball to begin with. It's a safety issue.

Kicking at a loose ball, a thrown pass, or even a dribbled ball, is one thing. Kicking at a ball that's being held by an opponent is quite another risk level, IMO.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Would you call an INT if the defender used a fist instead? Assuming they missed the ball and hit the shooter's arm instead, but did not cause excessive contact?

no

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Would you call an INT if the defender used a fist instead? Assuming they missed the ball and hit the shooter's arm instead, but did not cause excessive contact?

I'm inclined to go with an INT here for the same reason it's a violation to kick or punch the ball to begin with. It's a safety issue.

Kicking at a loose ball, a thrown pass, or even a dribbled ball, is one thing. Kicking at a ball that's being held by an opponent is quite another risk level, IMO.

Making contact with a fist might in itself constitute excessive contact, or might be fighting. Once again, "not a basketball play" (NABP) lowers the bar. Call the INT, discourage the behavior, prevent problems.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This is a good point, and I'm inclined to go with official's judgment here. If you think it was an attempt to neutralize an opponent's obviously advantageous position, then go ahead with the INT.

But I disagree with the idea of calling an INT just because it's "not a basketball play." There's no rules basis for that idea, and it's not synonymous with neutralizing obvious advantage.

But "not a basketball play" IS relevant: the defender loses all benefit of the doubt in a play like this, and could be hit with an INT or flagrant foul -- especially in a "warm" game, kicking could easily be interpreted as fighting.

So although "not a basketball play" does not by itself warrant the INT, I think it lowers the bar for INT or flagrant.

I think the "not a basketball play" comes in where the defender knows that regardless of what she makes contact with, be it ball or A1, she will violate or foul. Therefore B1 knowingly fouled without attempt to play the ball. That's a good fit for an intentional foul.

Beyond that, high kicking is a dangerous act which puts the opponent as well as the kicker herself at significant risk of injury. It's a foul committed with excessive force.

Take your pick, but either way I think you've got an intentional.