When is it too late to turnback a game ???????

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It ain't that easy. It depends on # of games to be covered plus availability on that particular night. We might also have to match partners depending on the game. We don't want 2 fairly inexperienced guys on a big game and we don't want new officials taking varsity games they aren't ready for yet either.

While I have no doubt that you put some thought (probably a LOT of thought) into these considerations, the actual switching of assignments takes less than 5 minutes if you use the Arbiter or something similar. Yes, I'm sure you'd rather not have to do it, but it's just not that hard to do, is it?

and they then come back to me to say they've accepted another game that they thought was better than the game I gave them...you can take it to the bank I will remember that. Their next game from me will be only when I absolutely have to use them.

I have so much respect for you, I hope you know that; but it's a little sad to me that you feel this way. As an assignor, I know that I would want to have good officials working my games. But I hope that I would also want those officials to progress as far as their abilities would take them. And in order to do that, you have to make yourself available to take a higher level game.

There is a D3 assignor outside my local area, who I get no games from, but I occasionally work with some of his officials. He has progressed in his own officiating career about as far as possible. But he punishes officials who turn back his D3 game for a D2 game. Do you suppose he got as far as he did without an assignor or two helping him out, rather than holding him back? Yet, he says, "If you turn back my game for a D2 game, forget about the postseason". His guys hate him.

And I can tell you that most assignors feel the same way. We treat officials the way thery treat us. Fair's fair.

I don't know most assignors. But I can tell you that none of my assignors (including my D2 assignor) feels that way. I have been very fortunate, I guess, to have assignors who have operated with the understanding that the higher level game gets the higher priority.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Since 1988...

Since 2001, when I started college varsity. . .

I have NEVER turned a game back in.

I've probably turned back an average of 1 game per season.

I have NEVER refused an assignment.

I refused 6 just this year. I sent my D3 assignor my D2 dates and he gave me games on them anyway. I always refuse HS or D3 scrimmages if they're more than a half-hour away.

I have NEVER refused a game as a fill-in.

I think I'm actually with you on this one.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

1) While I have no doubt that you put some thought (probably a LOT of thought) into these considerations, the actual switching of assignments takes less than 5 minutes if you use the Arbiter or something similar. Yes, I'm sure you'd rather not have to do it, but it's just not that hard to do, is it?

2) I have so much respect for you, I hope you know that; but it's a little sad to me that you feel this way. As an assignor, I know that I would want to have good officials working my games. But I hope that I would also want those officials to progress as far as their abilities would take them. And in order to do that, you have to make yourself available to take a higher level game.

1) Sometimes you may have to change several other assignments to get the match-up that you want. Some officials just don't mesh that well with some of their confreres. I haveta keep them away from each other where possible. And the game might dictate a fairly strong officiating crew, which means that I have to factor that in also. Can't have 3 U's on a game like that. It just aint that easy all the time, Scrappy. Sometime? Yes.

2) Please note that I specifically talked about officials who inform me that they're giving back the game without bothering to even try to discuss it with me first. If they phone and do discuss it, I don't have a problem with anybody switching to a better game. But if you don't want to talk to me and explain the circumstances, well, pardon the language, but to heck with you. To heck, I say! Also please note that I tell anyone who does have a college schedule to send me a copy of their schedule as soon as they get it. That way I can work around it.

[26 Year Gap]

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I don't know most assignors. But I can tell you that none of my assignors (including my D2 assignor) feels that way. I have been very fortunate, I guess, to have assignors who have operated with the understanding that the higher level game gets the higher priority.

I think this, like everything, is regional. I don't have one HS assignor. I have about a dozen conference commissioners who assign and I usually have (at most) 4 games a season from each commissioner (with one exception, where I work about 10). Here you simply can't dump a game back into an assignor's lap unless you want to pay the consequences -- if you secure a qualified sub and bring that name to the conversation, then the commissioner doesn't really care, for the most part. Our games are scheduled well in advance, though -- I just picked up a game in 2013, for example. Our assignors don't try to pick and choose the *best crew* for the *best game* because who knows what the best game will be 3 years from now?

I get off more than my fair share of games. I travel for a living and if a work trip comes along I can't weasel my way out of, I have to turn back games. Officiating doesn't pay the mortgage, after all.

I have no goal of being a fulltime college official. So unlike others here, I would look at a small college game 3 hours from the house and a HS game 15 minutes from the house and pick the HS game *every time*. This is what I did in baseball, and it frustrated the college assignor when I told him, "No, thanks, I already have a HS DH." Funny thing was, it never meant he wouldn't call me -- I just don't think he was used to someone telling him that a little old HS varsity game meant just as much to me as a small college game. Well, it did and it still does.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by grunewar

This year we were told anything inside 24 hrs (unless under exigent circumstances) you get "fined" your game check.

Is that in your boards by - laws or is that what the assigner says he is going to do ???

BTW - are you in Cardinal ???

[Adam]

Originally Posted by grunewar

This year we were told anything inside 24 hrs (unless under exigent circumstances) you get "fined" your game check.

Here, you can get fined for any turnback after the game has been accepted in arbiter.

The assigner in my last association didn't use arbiter, schedules came out in paper packets, and he gave a deadline of about a week after the schedule was released. Any turnback after that would mean a fine.

Further games are not assigned to an official until the fine is paid. Whether it's in the bi-laws or not, I don't know. It's not an area I care to use for wave-making, to be honest.

[Multiple Sports]

Hey guys, I appreciate how everyone responded. I think part of the equation / solution is what kind of mentality does the assigner have.

Some assigners assign based on availability ( most hs assigners) and some
assigners assign on ability.

I think 48 hrs is reasonable, unless it is the DeMatha / Gonzaga game in DC or
the Christ The King / St. Raymond's game in NYC.

I know guys that wouldn't work a DII or DIII game if they were assigned a high profile hs game.


Sorry to you guys out in the midwest, the games I referenced are some big time catholic school games on the east coast.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I have no goal of being a fulltime college official. So unlike others here, I would look at a small college game 3 hours from the house and a HS game 15 minutes from the house and pick the HS game *every time*. This is what I did in baseball, and it frustrated the college assignor when I told him, "No, thanks, I already have a HS DH." Funny thing was, it never meant he wouldn't call me -- I just don't think he was used to someone telling him that a little old HS varsity game meant just as much to me as a small college game. Well, it did and it still does.

Most college games I work are the same distance of the high school games I work. So that part is not an issue for me. I also like to be challenged. Many high school games do not challenge me.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Most (emphasis on most, not all) of the assignors I have worked for understand the :higher level" turnbacks. I think what ticks most assignors off is 1)not communicating the turnback in a timely manner, and 2)turning back a game for a "better" game at the same level. IOW, giving back one Boys Varsity game for a different Boys game from a different assignor.

Not a good idea, IMO.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Most college games I work are the same distance of the high school games I work. So that part is not an issue for me. I also like to be challenged. Many high school games do not challenge me.

Peace

Depends on the league, I'm sure. But you know the geography -- I have two D3 schools (maybe 3-4, but I'm too lazy to look it up) within an hour of my house, which is why I've never really cared about working college basketball. I'd drive farther in the summer, which is why I did baseball for a few years before I got annoyed with the drive, but in the winter the thought of driving 3 hours through a blizzard isn't appealing.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Depends on the league, I'm sure. But you know the geography -- I have two D3 schools (maybe 3-4, but I'm too lazy to look it up) within an hour of my house, which is why I've never really cared about working college basketball. I'd drive farther in the summer, which is why I did baseball for a few years before I got annoyed with the drive, but in the winter the thought of driving 3 hours through a blizzard isn't appealing.

I am not begrudging you at all about wanting to work a high school game over a college game. That is a very common situation for most officials, especially when they think working college has requirements are too much like the travel. And yes the travel most of the time is very long. And I do know that if you work for the right assignor at the D3 level in your area, you are going 3 and 4 hours one way to work games. Not fun when you have to go in a blizzard as well. And this is why when the baseball season starts, I refuse to go very far for college games. I just have the opportunity to work games very close without having to work go an hour to work a game in that sport. Basketball is a little more competitive and it is harder to work those same games during the basketball season.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not begrudging you at all about wanting to work a high school game over a college game. That is a very common situation for most officials, especially when they think working college has requirements are too much like the travel. And yes the travel most of the time is very long. And I do know that if you work for the right assignor at the D3 level in your area, you are going 3 and 4 hours one way to work games. Not fun when you have to go in a blizzard as well. And this is why when the baseball season starts, I refuse to go very far for college games. I just have the opportunity to work games very close without having to work go an hour to work a game in that sport. Basketball is a little more competitive and it is harder to work those same games during the basketball season.

Peace

Perhaps I wouldn't mind the travel, but to be quite honest, I hate driving and I travel a lot in my day job. I've flown from Madison to Minneapolis in the winter for business meetings because the thought of driving 4 hours in the snow (potential snow) is completely unappealing.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Perhaps I wouldn't mind the travel, but to be quite honest, I hate driving and I travel a lot in my day job. I've flown from Madison to Minneapolis in the winter for business meetings because the thought of driving 4 hours in the snow (potential snow) is completely unappealing.

I do agree with that. I would probably be tired of that as well. My life style is such where I am going 3 hours back to my hometown. I cannot stand it as well and it gets old. But my goals have not changed so I am willing to do that now. I cannot say I would do that 5 years from now. It also helps when you are single and have no children. Not everyone can do what I do when it comes to officiating based on my family situation.

Peace

[doubleringer]

My personal cut off for a varsity game high school game is a week. If you give an assignor less notice than that, it may be difficult for them to find someone with the experience and skills for that particular game. Anythinig lower than that, I would think a couple of days is ok, but I would not want to do it often if that is an assignor I want to continue to work with.