Trainwreck, what's the call

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're over-thinking the play.

justacoach overthinking? Impossible. justacoach thinking? Also impossible. justacoach underthinking? Possible, but only on a good day.

10.6.11 SITUATION D: A1 is running toward A’s goal but is looking back to
receive a pass. B1 takes a position in the path of A1 while A1 is 10 feet away from
B1. (a) A1 runs into B1 before receiving the ball; or (b) A1 receives the ball and
before taking a step contacts B1. RULING: In both (a) and (b), A1 is responsible
for contact. In (a), B1’s position is legal if A1 has been given two strides prior to
contact. In (b), since the position of B1 is legal when A1 has the ball, the contact
is charging by A1. (4-40)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Humor me, please...
Nutshell question. Is B3, minding his own business, a defender a screener, or neither!!! and can actions beyond his control impact his status?

Neither, but it doesn't matter.

You could, I suppose, have a case for a no-call. If B3 wasn't paying attention, and if the contact wasn't "too bad" you *might* be able to say that B3 wasn't prevented from "normal offensive or defensive maneuvers".

It CANNOT be a foul on B3.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Humor me, please...
Nutshell question. Is B3, minding his own business, a defender a screener, or neither!!! and can actions beyond his control impact his status?

Your question is intended to imply that he doesn't become a "defender" or "screener" until an opponent with the ball makes contact with him. You're fishing for a way to justify calling a foul on B3.

As the others have said: stop fishing. The time/distance restrictions on screeners apply when the screener is moving, not when an opponent is approaching a stationary player.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Had the following play recently. Seeking guidance and advice

Both teams in double bonus

B is deployed in 3/4 court zone press

B3 is stationary at division line, 8 ft from sideline, as part of press defense defense

A1 inbounds ball to A5.

A5 throws a lead pass over the head of wing player A2 who runs toward the division line, looking backward while trying to receive pass. A2 muffs the pass and immediately trainwrecks with B3, who never left his spot

Your call

BTW, I had block on B3, A2 to FT line for bonus

Thanks

No, no, no, say it ain't so. This is why you are 4th best in your family.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Humor me, please...
Nutshell question. Is B3, minding his own business, a defender a screener, or neither!!! and can actions beyond his control impact his status?

It doesnt matter if he's an elf, the most that's required of him is two steps time and distance.

[GoodwillRef]

Why would this be a team control foul? No team control in high school on throw-ins and if the player muffed the ball when never had team control...shoot the bonus.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Why would this be a team control foul? No team control in high school on throw-ins and if the player muffed the ball when never had team control...shoot the bonus.

A1 inbounds ball to A5.
A5 throws a lead pass over the head of wing player A2 who runs toward the division line, looking backward while trying to receive pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Why would this be a team control foul? No team control in high school on throw-ins and if the player muffed the ball when never had team control...shoot the bonus.

This part.

Originally Posted by justacoach

A1 inbounds ball to A5.

A5 threw the pass to A3.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This part.



A5 threw the pass to A3.

My bad...I read it wrong...forgot about the first pass to A5!

[NICK]

Reading this post, it seems to me that you are justifying your blocking foul call on B3, who had a LGP, cheers

[rwest]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Your question is intended to imply that he doesn't become a "defender" or "screener" until an opponent with the ball makes contact with him. You're fishing for a way to justify calling a foul on B3.

As the others have said: stop fishing. The time/distance restrictions on screeners apply when the screener is moving, not when an opponent is approaching a stationary player.

So, If A2 sets a blind screen and is not moving but does not give B2 a normal step, no foul on A2 because he is stationary? Or if, A2 moves into the path of B2 less than 2 steps in front of A2 but is stationary prior to contact, there is no foul on B2. When a player is moving without the ball time and distance are factors and the defense doesn't have to be moving. The defender must give them time and distance to avoid contact.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

So, If A2 sets a blind screen and is not moving but does not give B2 a normal step, no foul on A2 because he is stationary? Or if, A2 moves into the path of B2 less than 2 steps in front of A2 but is stationary prior to contact, there is no foul on B2. When a player is moving without the ball time and distance are factors and the defense doesn't have to be moving. The defender must give them time and distance to avoid contact.

True, and mbyron may have misspoken slightly. That said, the OP is a situation where it seems from his own description that far more than two steps were given from the time B3 took his position.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

True, and mbyron misspoke slightly.

Did I? rwest gave the game away when he said "A2 sets a blind screen." A2 did that by moving illegally into screening position and thereby violating the screening requirements: subsequent contact is a foul.

I never said it's not a foul if the defender is stationary at contact. I said that "The time/distance restrictions on screeners apply when the screener is moving." If a defender becomes a screener without having moved (the play comes to him), then contact is not a foul by the defense (might be a PC or TC foul).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Did I? rwest gave the game away when he said "A2 sets a blind screen." A2 did that by moving illegally into screening position and thereby violating the screening requirements: subsequent contact is a foul.

I never said it's not a foul if the defender is stationary at contact. I said that "The time/distance restrictions on screeners apply when the screener is moving." If a defender becomes a screener without having moved (the play comes to him), then contact is not a foul by the defense (might be a PC or TC foul).

I have added the applicable qualifier.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Did I? rwest gave the game away when he said "A2 sets a blind screen." A2 did that by moving illegally into screening position and thereby violating the screening requirements: subsequent contact is a foul.

I never said it's not a foul if the defender is stationary at contact. I said that "The time/distance restrictions on screeners apply when the screener is moving." If a defender becomes a screener without having moved (the play comes to him), then contact is not a foul by the defense (might be a PC or TC foul).

The time and distance principle is not just on a screener moving. If A2 sets a screen on B2 and is stationary when contact occurs but did not give B2 time and distance to avoid the contact it is a foul.