Timeout/Layup = technical foul

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This may be a stretch:

NFHS 10-3-5: A player shall not: Delay the game by acts such as:
Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer
official when a whistle blows.

I don't think that rule is applicable in the OP's sitch.

A time out is called. On the way to the bench, a player makes a lay-up. Is he delaying the game? That time-out is going to last 30 or 60 seconds regardless of the layup. If that player is delaying anything, it's a second or two of his own time at his bench, but that time-out will expire on time nonetheless.

Originally Posted by VaTerp

In the situation the OP described giving a T takes the game away from the players and coaches and puts it on a POOR JUDGMENT call from an official.

Poor judgment? Maybe. Still, I've come to believe that "taking the game away" concept is myopic. A single play never, ever decides a basketball game. The collection of plays over 32, 40, or 48 minutes (overtime notwithstanding) determines the winner. To say a single play determines an outcome is to negate all the other work that players, coaches, and officials put into that game.

Can a single play loom larger in a close game? Certainly. Will people be more likely to remember a single, closing-minutes play or call? Naturally. Will a single play unilaterally decide a basketball game? Never. Realistically, it's always about the collection. I believe that's all too easily forgotten.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

A time out is called. On the way to the bench, a player makes a lay-up. Is he delaying the game? That time-out is going to last 30 or 60 seconds regardless of the layup. If that player is delaying anything, it's a second or two of his own time at his bench, but that time-out will expire on time nonetheless.

Don't get carried away with the "delaying the game" concept, bainsey. The rule doesn't mention that. It simply says that we should prohibit practice during a dead ball. Sooooooo....if a player makes a lay-up on the way to the bench, prohibit him from practicing- just like the rule book says. What the rule book doesn't state is that there is a specific penalty to be applied accompanying the prohibition of practicing.

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For your information, I'm not talking about Marlo Thomas' boyfriend, Donald Hollinger.



On a written rules exam, this is correct. Can't practice during dead balls, except pregame, and at halftime.

That being said. I guess that he wants to be "that guy". I never want to "that guy" again. Once was enough (punched ball, not in a crowd).

About thirty years ago we had a college game between two small colleges. Team A wins by one at the buzzer. A1 dunks the ball to celebrate, right in front of the officials. Technical foul for dunking a dead ball. Team B went on to win. All over the news. I don't do college ball, but nevertheless, I never want to be "that guy".

Man, did I have a thing for Marlo Thomas. She, along with Sally Field, Annette Funicello and Cheryl Gervais (a girl in my 9th grade class) guaranteed I would marry a brunette.

[Jeremy Hohn]

What is that old saying, "don't do anything to make them remember you?" I think that applies big time here. The best compliment we can recieve as officials is to not be even noticed.

[APG]

Nope, I'm not making this call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MelbRef

Would you call a technical for the layup?

He!! to the..................... nnnnaaaaaaawwwww!!!!

Silly interpretation if someone wants to do that. If you do not like him doing it, tell him to knock it off. Problem solved and no one knows you are a silly person. Terrible ruling IMHO.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by jrutledge

he!! To the..................... Nnnnaaaaaaawwwww!!!!

Silly interpretation if someone wants to do that. If you do not like him doing it, tell him to knock it off. Problem solved and no one knows you are a silly person. Terrible ruling imho.

Peace

+1

[chseagle]

What about 10-3-5b?

"ART. 5 Delay the game by acts such as: . . .
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in
play.
b. Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle blows.
c. The free thrower fails to be in the free-throw semicircle when the official is ready to administer the free throw unless the resumption-of-play procedure is in effect following a time-out or intermission.
d. Repeated violations of the throw-in, as in 9-2-10."

Originally Posted by MelbRef

My partner shared a game-end snafu situation with me last night. His partners at his game all had a different opinion on how best to handle it. Thought I would share...

5 seconds left in game, Team A up by three with the ball, Team B fouls to stop the clock (no bonus). Team B coach calls timeout.

Here's where it gets interesting:

Team A player (guy who got fouled) casually dribbles to basket and takes a layup on the way to the bench for timeout.

R calls technical foul.

Then...Team B makes one of two technical free throws, gets the throw-in at halfcourt , and makes a game winning 3-point shot to win the game.

Team A coach goes ape, throws clipboard, whole 9 yards.

Would you call a technical for the layup?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

What about 10-3-5b?

"ART. 5 Delay the game by acts such as: . . .
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in
play.
b. Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle blows.
c. The free thrower fails to be in the free-throw semicircle when the official is ready to administer the free throw unless the resumption-of-play procedure is in effect following a time-out or intermission.
d. Repeated violations of the throw-in, as in 9-2-10."

Please read the entire thread. This rule is already on the discussion table.

[chseagle]

I did read the entire thread, BillyMac did cite it but did not give a full reference, just somehow I did not see it initially , especially since it falls under Player Technical & the penalty for anything under 10-3 is 2 FTs & ball at division line for throw-in.

In the OP, the team A player casually decides to go for a layup, after the whistle was blown, while heading to bench for the TO.

Hence why I was asking about 10-5-3b since the player failed to immediately give the ball to the nearest official after the whistle was blown.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Please read the entire thread. This rule is already on the discussion table.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I did read the entire thread, I did not see any mention of 10-5-3b, especially since it falls under Player Technical & the penalty for anything under 10-3 is 2 FTs & ball at division line for throw-in.

Really? Try again, you can start with Post #9, where BillyMac says this:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This may be a stretch:

NFHS 10-3-5: A player shall not: Delay the game by acts such as:
Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer
official when a whistle blows.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And it's a stretch because imo if the rulesmakers wanted to to identify this as a specific delay of game problem, they would have done so by either including it as one of the DOG warnings or adressed it directly as they did on a play like a defender touching the ball OOB on a throw-in while the thrower is holding it.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

More to the point, however. . . How is this "practice" lay-up delaying the game?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the player travels the length of the court, by-passing one or more officials along the way, and shoots a layup before heading to his bench, it could easily be considered delaying the game.

Had a partner call a T last year when, following the granting of a timeout, A1 (standing near that partner) launched a twenty foot shot then ended up heading to the bleachers. Partner gave him two chances to retrieve the ball and he refused.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

How?? The game is stopped for the next 30 or 60 seconds. Nothing is going to happen anyway. So how he delaying anything?

[chseagle]

Try rereading my last post as I did an edit to it, stating I saw that BillyMac did post 10-5-3b. The only thing that was not posted was what the penalty is.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Really? Try again, you can start with Post #9, where BillyMac says this:

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MelbRef

My partner shared a game-end snafu situation with me last night. His partners at his game all had a different opinion on how best to handle it. Thought I would share...

5 seconds left in game, Team A up by three with the ball, Team B fouls to stop the clock (no bonus). Team B coach calls timeout.

Here's where it gets interesting:

Team A player (guy who got fouled) casually dribbles to basket and takes a layup on the way to the bench for timeout.

R calls technical foul.

Then...Team B makes one of two technical free throws, gets the throw-in at halfcourt , and makes a game winning 3-point shot to win the game.

Team A coach goes ape, throws clipboard, whole 9 yards.

Would you call a technical for the layup?

What did A1 do with the ball after the lay-up?

Me, I'm telling A1 to bring me the ball. The situation would then be over.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What did A1 do with the ball after the lay-up? I'm telling A1 to bring me the ball.

And, for sake of argument, if he didn't comply?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What did A1 do with the ball after the lay-up?

Me, I'm telling A1 to bring me the ball. The situation would then be over.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And, for sake of argument, if he didn't comply?

Not an option.