Player starting to fall in anticipation of charge

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JohnDorian37

At some point he's no longer vertical and then it is certainly a block.

Unless you are vertical towards the opponent, then that is not illegal. A player can always absorb or brace themselves for contact.

Peace

[rwest]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless you are vertical towards the opponent, then that is not illegal. A player can always absorb or brace themselves for contact.

Peace

This is a HTBT play. In my mind it all depends on the amount of contact and if the contact caused the player to go to the floor. If they are leaning back so far as to require minimal contact to go to the floor, I've got nothing or a block. The main reasons players do this is to draw a foul and that is an Unsporting T as one poster has already mentioned. You can still call a charge when the player is leaning back because as you say they are allowed to brace or move to absorb contact.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

This is a HTBT play. In my mind it all depends on the amount of contact and if the contact caused the player to go to the floor. If they are leaning back so far as to require minimal contact to go to the floor, I've got nothing or a block. The main reasons players do this is to draw a foul and that is an Unsporting T as one poster has already mentioned. You can still call a charge when the player is leaning back because as you say they are allowed to brace or move to absorb contact.

Based on what rule?

Disagree. The main reason is to brace for contact. Besides, trying to draw a foul call is not an unsporting T, unless you think it's an attempt to "fake being fouled." They're not the same thing, necessarily. Allowing yourself to fall after contact is different, IMO, than faking being fouled.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Based on what rule?

Disagree. The main reason is to brace for contact. Besides, trying to draw a foul call is not an unsporting T, unless you think it's an attempt to "fake being fouled." They're not the same thing, necessarily. Allowing yourself to fall after contact is different, IMO, than faking being fouled.

First of all let me clarify. I like to use the To or Through principle. Did the offensive player go through the defender, then it is a PC all the way regardless of whether the defender was leaning or not. If he went to the player, meaning minimal (read here incidental) contact then I believe a block can be a reasonable call if the offensive player falls to the ground because of the defender lying on the ground. In other words, if the offensive player fell to the floor because of the "flop", it can be a block.

I don't agree the main reason is to brace for contact. I believe the main reason is to fake a foul, hence the unsporting T.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rwest

If he went to the player, meaning minimal (read here incidental) contact then I believe a block can be a reasonable call if the offensive player falls to the ground because of the defender lying on the ground. In other words, if the offensive player fell to the floor because of the "flop", it can be a block.

Faulty logic from a rules stand-point, as Snaqs pointed out. How can you possibly call a block on a player who has a legal guarding position? A defender can always legally move to maintain their LGP and that includes moving backwards.

Better re-think that one because you have absolutely no rules justification to ever call a block. A no-call or a "T" for faking a foul, yes. That's a judgment call. But never a block.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

First of all let me clarify. I like to use the To or Through principle. Did the offensive player go through the defender, then it is a PC all the way regardless of whether the defender was leaning or not.

I agree with this part as a general rule.

Originally Posted by rwest

If he went to the player, meaning minimal (read here incidental) contact then I believe a block can be a reasonable call if the offensive player falls to the ground because of the defender lying on the ground. In other words, if the offensive player fell to the floor because of the "flop", it can be a block.

By rule, not really. That player is entitled to the spot on the floor if he gets their first. If you're trying to send a message and that's what is accepted in your area, that's different; but there's no solid rules backing for making that call.

Originally Posted by rwest

I don't agree the main reason is to brace for contact. I believe the main reason is to fake a foul, hence the unsporting T.

If you think he's faking being fouled, then I'd say sac up and call the T. I've called one such T, in a 7th grade YMCA game. I'd warned the kid, then he did it again just as the dribbler got within closely guarded distance.

Had a JV kid last year try it once. I no-called the play, then warned him not to do it again on the way down the court. He didn't.