Lazy Partner Advice

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The OP said specifically his association has been told to enforce everything at all levels. So why are people on this board giving him advice to ignore his association?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Good point; I was just surprised at those who said they agreed with the veteran that it was ok to ignore what the association had said to enforced. I should have included Rut's post in my response instead of yours. You just happened to be last at the moment. Sorry.

I did not say to ignore his association. Actually I do not care what his association said. I was answering what he should do. If the association is not at the game how can you go against a partner that wants to do his thing? If the partner is the Referee (which is likely where I live) and he does not follow the rules, he will be the one that has to take the responsibility. Not many people in my area would hold the rookie or younger official to task because the veteran wanted to do something, who also has more influence and can intimidate his/her fellow officials.

I am also from the Chicago area and I belong to 3 official's associations. I am President of one of them in the basketball division. I can tell you we do not assign games or dictate what guys do for assignors. Assignors dictate what is allowed or what is enforced in conjunction with the IHSA. Middle school is a mixed bag and there is no telling what the rules they use for specific leagues or tournaments. My associations do not have the power to tell any official what they do and it is common in most situations. The association I am President over has over 100 officials that are paid member, but during the season I will not work with many of them in my games as was the case Monday and Tuesday of this week while working tournaments. So even if we said "Association members should do this...." if they work with someone outside of the association they may not follow the same personal philosophies about anything. This is why the IHSA trumps all that stuff and if the IHSA has addressed it that is what we follow.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am also from the Chicago area and I belong to 3 official's associations. I am President of one of them in the basketball division. I can tell you we do not assign games or dictate what guys do for assignors. Assignors dictate what is allowed or what is enforced in conjunction with the IHSA. Middle school is a mixed bag and there is no telling what the rules they use for specific leagues or tournaments. My associations do not have the power to tell any official what they do and it is common in most situations. The association I am President over has over 100 officials that are paid member, but during the season I will not work with many of them in my games as was the case Monday and Tuesday of this week while working tournaments. So even if we said "Association members should do this...." if they work with someone outside of the association they may not follow the same personal philosophies about anything. This is why the IHSA trumps all that stuff and if the IHSA has addressed it that is what we follow.

Peace

And you know full well this is not the case everywhere; in fact his OP tells you that's not the case for him. In my admittedly smaller metro area (half a million), there is one association that assigns high school ball. The middle school ball is assigned by a few guys who happen to be senior members of that association. I can tell you, around here, if you don't work games according to their wishes (including enforcing 3-5), you won't work many games for them.

And here in CO, the local associations all work closely with CHSAA on these things. So, while CHSAA doesn't really control middle school; the requirements are often passed down to that level. As for high school subvarsity, you can guarantee the officials are enforcing that stuff if they want to move up to varsity.

Illegal uniforms are one thing; red undershirts beneath a blue uniform is another.

If I was in Denver, I'd be working for different associations like you, and around here, I'd have to keep track of the different requirements of the different associations.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And you know full well this is not the case everywhere; in fact his OP tells you that's not the case for him. In my admittedly smaller metro area (half a million), there is one association that assigns high school ball. The middle school ball is assigned by a few guys who happen to be senior members of that association. I can tell you, around here, if you don't work games according to their wishes (including enforcing 3-5), you won't work many games for them.

Of course I realize that things are not the same everywhere. And how he deals with that is really only someone can answer that lives in his area. They would know the procedures and consequence of not following such a mandate. I just answered what "I" would do. What others would do is up to them and their area.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And here in CO, the local associations all work closely with CHSAA on these things. So, while CHSAA doesn't really control middle school; the requirements are often passed down to that level. As for high school subvarsity, you can guarantee the officials are enforcing that stuff if they want to move up to varsity.

Illegal uniforms are one thing; red undershirts beneath a blue uniform is another.

If I was in Denver, I'd be working for different associations like you, and around here, I'd have to keep track of the different requirements of the different associations.

Agreed.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Odd uniforms I can live with.

Jewelry, undershirts, headbands, and wristbands: By the book.

If you ignore jewelry and it somehow, in a crazy situation, causes some type of crazy, odd, injury, there may be legal ramifications.

I've posted this before, but it's worth another read: If you think that the "Fashion Police" rules can't be enforced consistently, then guess again. Undershirt, headband, wrist bands, and jewelry rules are strictly enforced in the Catholic middle school league that I work. If we, as officials, don't enforce these rules, we don't get paid by our assigner. All officials know this, as do all coaches. After a few reminders the first week of the season, we no longer have any problems with these "Fashion Police" rules. No, "The officials last week let him wear his lucky stars and stripes headband". And some of these kids are in second, or third grade, coached by volunteer parents. If they "get" the rule, then high school players, coached by paid coaches, can "get" the rule.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Odd uniforms I can live with.

Jewelry, undershirts, headbands, and wristbands: By the book.

If you ignore jewelry and it somehow, in a crazy situation, causes some type of crazy, odd, injury, there may be legal ramifications.

I've posted this before, but it's worth another read: If you think that the "Fashion Police" rules can't be enforced consistently, then guess again. Undershirt, headband, wrist bands, and jewelry rules are strictly enforced in the Catholic middle school league that I work. If we, as officials, don't enforce these rules, we don't get paid by our assigner. All officials know this, as do all coaches. After a few reminders the first week of the season, we no longer have any problems with these "Fashion Police" rules. No, "The officials last week let him wear his lucky stars and stripes headband". And some of these kids are in second, or third grade, coached by volunteer parents. If they "get" the rule, then high school players, coached by paid coaches, can "get" the rule.

+1 for our area and the areas around us.

[bainsey]

I appreciate the thoughts and advice.

My board says that 3-4-1c (home team must wear white) is only enforceable at the varsity level. That's the only distinction we've received. Personally, I'd like to see some additional leniency for the middle schools, for reasons mentioned by others, but until I get that permission, I'll fall in line. If someone else chooses not to comply, I'll have to deal with it.

At the end of last season, I had a pair of middle school games where the away teams had a few red uniforms and white undershirts. My partner dealt with the boys' coach, and those shirts were removed in the locker room without incident. Later, I dealt with the girls' coach, and one of her players wound up in tears. Her mother actually came out of the stands wanting to see this rule in writing. The home team provided her with a red undershirt.

Internally, I was quite angry at the other officials (whoever they were) who let it go all year. One key fact is that our board is not the only choice in town that does middle school games. There's another crew, and to say they're more lenient in a number of facets is an understatement. This other crew apparently worked a lot of this school's away games (our board serves their home games), and I have a pretty good idea no-one cared to tell either coach about the undershirt rule.

I sympathize with those MS coaches who are given illegally numbered uniforms, for I bet most of them aren't aware of these rules, and/or they're told by the AD "it's just a high school rule" (despite my board's instructions). The trouble is, if you don't enforce these rules, those illegal unis never go away.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Later, I dealt with the girls' coach, and one of her players wound up in tears. Her mother actually came out of the stands wanting to see this rule in writing.

A little bit of over-reaction, don't you think? What's going to happen over the holidays when she goes to visit her Grandma, and Grandpa, and a mean old Transportation Security Administration agent tells her to get into the machine for a full, naked body, scan, and then to get ready for her groping, private area, pat down?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I sympathize with those MS coaches who are given illegally numbered uniforms, for I bet most of them aren't aware of these rules, and/or they're told by the AD "it's just a high school rule" (despite my board's instructions). The trouble is, if you don't enforce these rules, those illegal unis never go away.

My personal opinion is, especially with middle school but also sub varsity, unless I'm told specifically to enforce the number and uniform rules (3-4), I'm not going to at that level.

Conversely, unless I'm told not to enforce the 3-5 rules, I'm going to.

AAU and elementary are different animals, AFAIC, so I'll get direction from those responsible in that case.