Lazy Partner Advice

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Mr. Rutledge,

I just don't agree. A veteran should be an example and show the new guys what right should look like. It should matter what level.

If we are not enforcing the uniform rules, what other rules should we ignore at the sub-varsity level?

Think about freshmen level ball where uniforms are hand-me-downs usually from Soph or Varsity teams. A skinny kid has enough problems keeping his pants up, much less his jersey tucked in. To penalize that player by following the 'letter of law' just isn't common sense. If he makes an effort to comply that should be sufficient. It's called game management. Yes, you're aware of the rule, and you're not ignoring it because of laziness, again just applying common sense and a sense of fair play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Think about freshmen level ball where uniforms are hand-me-downs usually from Soph or Varsity teams. A skinny kid has enough problems keeping his pants up, much less his jersey tucked in. To penalize that player by following the 'letter of law' just isn't common sense. If he makes an effort to comply that should be sufficient. It's called game management. Yes, you're aware of the rule, and you're not ignoring it because of laziness, again just applying common sense and a sense of fair play.

I'm with Bob and JR on this. 3-4 is for varsity; 3-5 is for everyone.

The OP said specifically his association has been told to enforce everything at all levels. So why are people on this board giving him advice to ignore his association?

[fullor30]

Snaqs.

I agree with JR on 3-5, there is no excuse. Associations, at least in the Chicago area (three that I'm a member of), don't really dictate to it's members possibly like others around the country and certainly not at middle school level.

I'm not condoning ignoring his association, I was addressing lazy partner question which to me was main point of thread and my response is how I'd address it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Snaqs.

I agree with JR on 3-5, there is no excuse. Associations, at least in the Chicago area (three that I'm a member of), don't really dictate to it's members possibly like others around the country and certainly not at middle school level.

I'm not condoning ignoring his association, I was addressing lazy partner question which to me was main point of thread and my response is how I'd address it.

Good point; I was just surprised at those who said they agreed with the veteran that it was ok to ignore what the association had said to enforced. I should have included Rut's post in my response instead of yours. You just happened to be last at the moment. Sorry.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The OP said specifically his association has been told to enforce everything at all levels. So why are people on this board giving him advice to ignore his association?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Good point; I was just surprised at those who said they agreed with the veteran that it was ok to ignore what the association had said to enforced. I should have included Rut's post in my response instead of yours. You just happened to be last at the moment. Sorry.

I did not say to ignore his association. Actually I do not care what his association said. I was answering what he should do. If the association is not at the game how can you go against a partner that wants to do his thing? If the partner is the Referee (which is likely where I live) and he does not follow the rules, he will be the one that has to take the responsibility. Not many people in my area would hold the rookie or younger official to task because the veteran wanted to do something, who also has more influence and can intimidate his/her fellow officials.

I am also from the Chicago area and I belong to 3 official's associations. I am President of one of them in the basketball division. I can tell you we do not assign games or dictate what guys do for assignors. Assignors dictate what is allowed or what is enforced in conjunction with the IHSA. Middle school is a mixed bag and there is no telling what the rules they use for specific leagues or tournaments. My associations do not have the power to tell any official what they do and it is common in most situations. The association I am President over has over 100 officials that are paid member, but during the season I will not work with many of them in my games as was the case Monday and Tuesday of this week while working tournaments. So even if we said "Association members should do this...." if they work with someone outside of the association they may not follow the same personal philosophies about anything. This is why the IHSA trumps all that stuff and if the IHSA has addressed it that is what we follow.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am also from the Chicago area and I belong to 3 official's associations. I am President of one of them in the basketball division. I can tell you we do not assign games or dictate what guys do for assignors. Assignors dictate what is allowed or what is enforced in conjunction with the IHSA. Middle school is a mixed bag and there is no telling what the rules they use for specific leagues or tournaments. My associations do not have the power to tell any official what they do and it is common in most situations. The association I am President over has over 100 officials that are paid member, but during the season I will not work with many of them in my games as was the case Monday and Tuesday of this week while working tournaments. So even if we said "Association members should do this...." if they work with someone outside of the association they may not follow the same personal philosophies about anything. This is why the IHSA trumps all that stuff and if the IHSA has addressed it that is what we follow.

Peace

And you know full well this is not the case everywhere; in fact his OP tells you that's not the case for him. In my admittedly smaller metro area (half a million), there is one association that assigns high school ball. The middle school ball is assigned by a few guys who happen to be senior members of that association. I can tell you, around here, if you don't work games according to their wishes (including enforcing 3-5), you won't work many games for them.

And here in CO, the local associations all work closely with CHSAA on these things. So, while CHSAA doesn't really control middle school; the requirements are often passed down to that level. As for high school subvarsity, you can guarantee the officials are enforcing that stuff if they want to move up to varsity.

Illegal uniforms are one thing; red undershirts beneath a blue uniform is another.

If I was in Denver, I'd be working for different associations like you, and around here, I'd have to keep track of the different requirements of the different associations.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And you know full well this is not the case everywhere; in fact his OP tells you that's not the case for him. In my admittedly smaller metro area (half a million), there is one association that assigns high school ball. The middle school ball is assigned by a few guys who happen to be senior members of that association. I can tell you, around here, if you don't work games according to their wishes (including enforcing 3-5), you won't work many games for them.

Of course I realize that things are not the same everywhere. And how he deals with that is really only someone can answer that lives in his area. They would know the procedures and consequence of not following such a mandate. I just answered what "I" would do. What others would do is up to them and their area.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And here in CO, the local associations all work closely with CHSAA on these things. So, while CHSAA doesn't really control middle school; the requirements are often passed down to that level. As for high school subvarsity, you can guarantee the officials are enforcing that stuff if they want to move up to varsity.

Illegal uniforms are one thing; red undershirts beneath a blue uniform is another.

If I was in Denver, I'd be working for different associations like you, and around here, I'd have to keep track of the different requirements of the different associations.

Agreed.

Peace

[Zoochy]

I echo the words of bob and JR. I do not like being the 'Fashion Police', but I do it. It does not make us, the officials, look good when we have to enforce these rules. And it does not make us look good when we do not enforce these rules.
During warm ups I look for ear rings, bobby pins, head/wrist band violations. And if they are not wearing warmup uniforms, then I look for illegal numbers, and illegal undergarments.
Many years ago I noticed that a player had a metal brace on his finger. I informed the player and coach about this situation and the options. He blasted me during this conversation. And made it a point that the player has worn it all season and I was the 1st to bring it to his attention. I watched one of his games later in the season. Guess what? He had the brace on the finger. The player was the Assistant Principal's son.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Think about freshmen level ball where uniforms are hand-me-downs usually from Soph or Varsity teams. A skinny kid has enough problems keeping his pants up, much less his jersey tucked in.

Fullor - I remember a JVB game I had a few yrs ago where they used the V hand me downs. The uniform tops were so big on some of the younger kids the arm holes were nearly tucked into the shorts and we could barely see some of the numbers. And, if they didn't have the waste-tie (dingle-dangle for you military) or it didn't work or was missing on the shorts we had the pants problems you allude to. Was really bothersome on many and really took away from their play.

[26 Year Gap]

I think one reason many boards want these things enforced is the consistency. How many of us have had to deal with "they didn't have to do it in the first game"? My last game I noticed a couple of players warming up in the prelim with ear rings or taped over ear rings. I let the JV officials know. They did NOTHING. Hand me down uniforms is one thing. Black t-shirts under white uniforms, jewelry, etc is another.

FWIW, if I see a player with a bracelet, jewelry, or hair pins, I let the player know. When I go get that coach for the pre-game meeting, I advise about illegal t-shirts and needing to remove them out of the visual confines for the team I am responsible for watching. The other guy is responsible for his team.