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Old Sun Nov 21, 2010, 10:10pm
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
In NCAA beginning this year, any moving elbow which contacts an opponent above the shoulders is a minimum of an intentional foul. The intentional is for contact that result from "total body movement" (a normal pivot, for example). If contact anywhere on the opponent results from excessive swinging of the elbows, then it is a flagrant foul.
So there's no chance of incidental? Even if the defender sticks his nose in where it doesn't belong?
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Old Sun Nov 21, 2010, 10:25pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
So there's no chance of incidental? Even if the defender sticks his nose in where it doesn't belong?
Incidental is a choice. But a common foul is not.
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Old Sun Nov 21, 2010, 11:49pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
So there's no chance of incidental? Even if the defender sticks his nose in where it doesn't belong?
The "incidental" elbows I saw last year resulted in ejections, if incidental means, "I swung my elbow, knocked you on your *** even though I didn't know you were there.
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 01:16am
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No it is not the same at the high school level. The NCAA wants certain kinds of fouls called if contact is with the head. HS has not made these provisions about calling an intentional foul with all contact of that nature.

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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 05:41am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
HS has not made these provisions about calling an intentional foul with all contact of that nature...
...yet. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a similar edict in a year or two.
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 10:06am
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...yet. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a similar edict in a year or two.
I wouldn't either.

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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 09:01am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
So there's no chance of incidental? Even if the defender sticks his nose in where it doesn't belong?
My understanding is that if the elbow is moving, then incidental is not an option. Because of this, we have been pre-gaming that if a defender "sticks his nose in where it doesn't belong", we grab any initial contact as a common foul on the defender. Get those little guys out of there, and there's less chance for that big guy to pivot and get hit with the intentional.
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 09:47am
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my take
NCAA redefined elbows above the shoulders. NFHS did not. THe play in the UNC-Vandy game could have just been a player control foul in High School.
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 10:22am
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
My understanding is that if the elbow is moving, then incidental is not an option. Because of this, we have been pre-gaming that if a defender "sticks his nose in where it doesn't belong", we grab any initial contact as a common foul on the defender. Get those little guys out of there, and there's less chance for that big guy to pivot and get hit with the intentional.
+1

This has been standard in each pregrame I've been involved with this year.
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 12:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Even if the defender sticks his nose in where it doesn't belong?
What stipulates where the defenders' nose belongs or doesn't belong?
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 01:04pm
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Originally Posted by PG_Ref View Post
What stipulates where the defenders' nose belongs or doesn't belong?
For NFHS, Rule 4-23-1.
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 01:13pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
For NFHS, Rule 4-23-1.
Yep ... the nose that gets there first, belongs
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 01:26pm
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Originally Posted by PG_Ref View Post
Yep ... the nose that gets there first, belongs
As BktBallRef alludes to, if B1 leans over A1, who pivots elbows out in the process of straightening up or even squaring up, it's likely going to be a no-call unless A1's elbow is somehow damaged.
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 01:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
As BktBallRef alludes to, if B1 leans over A1, who pivots elbows out in the process of straightening up or even squaring up, it's likely going to be a no-call unless A1's elbow is somehow damaged.
Perhaps true, but based on the OP, I was going on the presumption that we have swinging elbows VS elbows moving via normal pivoting ...
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Old Mon Nov 22, 2010, 01:52pm
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My President says if the elbows do not move faster than the torso, it is not a violation or foul.
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