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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 11, 2010, 11:13pm
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 654
Working with a Veteran

My first game will be coming up in the next 2 weeks.

Do most Veterans like working with Rookies or find it a PITA?

Do they offer advice and make corrections on my erros during time outs and half time?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 11, 2010, 11:24pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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All veterans are different. None of us are exactly the same.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 11, 2010, 11:41pm
We don't rent pigs
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
All veterans are different. None of us are exactly the same.

Peace

True. Same is true for rookies. Some are more receptive to advice than others.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 12:01am
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Have you worked any scrimmages? Had any floor training? Attended any rule clinics?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 04:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
Do most Veterans like working with Rookies or find it a PITA?

Do they offer advice and make corrections on my erros during time outs and half time?
Depends on what kind of rookie it is. If it's one who hustles and shows a willingness to learn and get better, I find it to be fun. If it's the smart-a$$ know it all rookie, then it's a nightmare.

I will usually offer advice and encouragement whenever I can or I think it's needed. It also depends on how receptive the person is going to be to said advice. Remember, you don't want to be a 'Yabut". If a veteran offers you advice or criticism, LISTEN to it and say thank you. You can decide later on your own if it was worth anything or not.

Most of all, just remember to hustle when you're out there and don't call anything you can't explain. You'll be fine
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Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 05:16am
9/11 - Never Forget
 
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Concur

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsman1288 View Post
Depends on what kind of rookie it is. If it's one who hustles and shows a willingness to learn and get better, I find it to be fun.
If a new (or rookie) partner WANTS to get better and is there to learn and improve their game, this can be a great experience for both of you.

Hustle, pay attention, listen, and learn - if they can do that, I'm good to go.

Just remember though, not everyone is a good teacher and/or mentor - just like not everyone is a good student. Sometimes things just don't click. It's all part of growing and gaining experience.

Good luck.
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Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 06:03am
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Boston Area
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Remembering my first year ...

I can only say that most of the men and women I worked with during my first year were great about my lack of experience.

For my part, I always let them know it was indeed my first year. Most offered a few words of advice, some asked if I wanted advice at the end of a game before it was offered. Most of the feedback I received had little to do with what I called or didn't call, it was more about game management or working the arc more aggressively or ways in which I could have helped my partner with a clearer mechanic or communication.

Enjoy your first year. After each game (or set of games) I went home and thought about what I saw, what I called, my mechanics etc and read the casebook to make sure I was handling things correctly. Not a bad thing to do in my opinion.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 07:09am
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Every veteran has something to teach you: a game management tip, procedures for your area that aren't in the book, something to improve your mechanics. Try to find it.

Every veteran has a piece of advice you should ignore: a rule that changed 10 years ago, a mechanic that only he can make work, personal information about that coach. Watch out for it.

I'm aware that this doesn't answer your question. Some vets resent rookies, probably because subconsciously they realize that rookies will eventually take their games. Some love rookies, as the people with whom they can share their accumulated wisdom. It won't take you long to figure out which are which.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 08:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
My first game will be coming up in the next 2 weeks.

Do most Veterans like working with Rookies or find it a PITA?

Do they offer advice and make corrections on my erros during time outs and half time?
Last year was my first. I worked ~20 games and had about 15 veteran partners. ( I actually had 1 very competitive JV Boys where we had 2 rookies - THAT was a learning experience.)

The vets were great for the most part. Some offered very concrete advice, even to the point of how to point to the floor to indicate throw-in spot. Others were more general in their advice.

I only had 1 vet that was just not my cup of tea.

Listen, listen, listen. Hustle, hustle, hustle. Have an attitude that you want to learn and you'll be fine.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 10:25am
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My experience

I remeber my first three or four games (over ten years ago)...

In one game, I worked with a veteran who only praised me for everything I did and really didn't criticize me at all.

In the next two I worked with a veteran who said next to nothing, other than to tell me how we were going to "work these games" (i.e, no switches, "let them play", etc.)

Finally, I worked with a respected veteran, who I felt at the time, was really harsh in correcting me. (Actually he was correcting a lot of the bad habits I had picked up in games 2 and 3). His criticism was all warranted and, over time, made me a better official. But at the time I HATED IT!

After these four games, I looked to work more with the first official, and less with the other two. As time went on, I realized that I was better off with the third, who I now consider a great friend (I still take his advice) and I have come to realize that neither of the other two officials are very well respected and are still working the level of play they were working ten years ago.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 10:54am
TODO: creative title here
 
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I'm a second-year basketball guy myself...

Last year, whenever I was working a game with a veteran official, I'd always say something like this to them before the game: "I know you're not going to be looking at me all that much, but if/when you see something I'm not doing right or that I could improve on, please let me know so I can get better". In fact, I plan on using this line again again this year.

I've had a couple of partners who wanted to do the "no switching because I'm lazy" routine, which I normally countered with "Do you mind if we keep up the normal rotation? I still struggle with when to rotate, and that's something I really was hoping to work on today."

You'll also find that you'll quickly figure out which guys have ten years' experience, and which guys have one years' experience ten times. Make sure you take to heart the advice/pointers of the former, and forget/ignore most of the advice of the later.

Another good way to get vets to warm up to you... Ask them for advice about how you should have handled a situation that happened in one of your prior games.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 11:00am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
True. Same is true for rookies. Some are more receptive to advice than others.
Yep. Or should I say +1?

Peace
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 11:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
I've had a couple of partners who wanted to do the "no switching because I'm lazy" routine, which I normally countered with "Do you mind if we keep up the normal rotation? I still struggle with when to rotate, and that's something I really was hoping to work on today."
Good post overall, but please note that switching is different from rotating. We switch when we change position after a foul (in 2-whistle and 3-whistle). We rotate during play in 3-whistle to put 2 officials ballside.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 11:13am
TODO: creative title here
 
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Good post overall, but please note that switching is different from rotating. We switch when we change position after a foul (in 2-whistle and 3-whistle). We rotate during play in 3-whistle to put 2 officials ballside.
I was not aware of that, but I've only worked 2-whistle games (the only 3-whistle around here is in a couple of varsity conferences... most have gone back to 2-whistle to "save money").

Thanks for setting me straight.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 12, 2010, 11:19am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Good post overall, but please note that switching is different from rotating. We switch when we change position after a foul (in 2-whistle and 3-whistle). We rotate during play in 3-whistle to put 2 officials ballside.
Switching is dead ball movement.

Rotating is a live ball movement.

Peace
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