Questions for Veteran officials

[Sirrefalot]

I am a new official(completing second year)and I have a couple questions. I have done only three varsity contests (class d schools) all the rest have been freshman or J.V. The varsity contests that I have done have been contests in which an assignor is not used (school hires officials directly) On one occasion (last year)I was doing an assigned J.V. game and as soon as the game was over I saw a man running across the court at me as I headed toward the locker room. He wanted to know if I would be willing to officiate a varsity contest for there school. I had told them that this was my first year officiating and that I wasn't sure I was prepared for a varsity contest, to which he replied "If you call the fouls when you see them like you did tonight you'll be fine". This year I did the game and It went well (it was a huge rivelry between two small schools) My question has to do with the varsity coach's that contact me like to call the fouls when I see them. But, during a freshman game in which I officiated, I called a game in which a veteran officials daughter played in. He sent a blazing letter to the assignor and myself stating that I "didn't make it a players game" (whatever that means) And I have not been assigned a game at that particular school since. My son is a varsity player and I prefer to have the game called correctly (or at least in my eyes), I see many fouls in which the vetran official "passes" on the call to keep a good flow and 9 time out of 10 the team that gets the pass benifits from the no-call. I do understand there are conditions in which you pass, but the constant handchecking, kneeing in the back to get the big guy off the post are fouls and need to be cleaned up. Am I way off on this? or is it an experiance thing? Notes: I am a former player, coach, and now official. Any input you have will be appreciated.

[JugglingReferee]

Unless this veteran official is on the local officails' association executive, I think he overstepped his bounds.

Having said that, that don't matter because the damage is done - the assignor believes this guy.

I think running to the assignor and tattling on someone is like talking about officials while in the stands, etc... - don't do it. (If the ref is sooooo bad that he is WAY WAY over their head, then maybe that call is just. Even then, the assignor should watch that official work and make his own decision.)

How has your association thought of your ability during FR and JV games? Maybe this veteran is jealous you got a V game in your 2nd year. Has he been locked out of a V sked? Was he upset because his daughter was fouled and he wants justice? It takes all kinds in this world...

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally posted by Sirrefalot
...as soon as the game was over I saw a man running across the court at me...

Run, Forest, Run!!!!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Sirrefalot
I do understand there are conditions in which you pass, but the constant handchecking, kneeing in the back to get the big guy off the post are fouls and need to be cleaned up. Am I way off on this? or is it an experiance thing? Notes: I am a former player, coach, and now official. Any input you have will be appreciated.

I can't really speak to whether you called too many fouls or if the author of the letter was right or wrong. I can just tell you that as you continue to work and learn, your quality calls will inprove and increase and your quantity of calls will decrease.

All contact is not a foul, and all fouls do not need to be called. True story, in a game I worked yesterday, I was lead. The rebound came off on the opposite side of the lane. A1 had B1 blocked out as both players go up. A1 comes down with the ball and my partner at center whistles a foul on B1. Now, was it a foul? Possibly, maybe even probably. But two things hapened. A1 was denied the opoortunity for an easy put back and B1 picked up her 3rd foul. So while it may have been a foul, IMHO it was a bad whistle. Everybody in the gym would have been much happier if the whistle had not blown.

JMO.

[ronny mulkey]

Refalot,

What State is this? How were you informed that these Varsity coaches liked your foul selection? Did they also inform you of the teams that do not like your foul selection? For every coach that likes your foul selection, you will probably find many more that will not. Has any coaches came up and told you that he did not like the way that you "saw" them?

Down here we have a lot of success converting former coaches into officials. But, you might want to consider only taking the "assigned" contests until you become established or experienced enough to interpret what it is a coach is saying when he wants you to come do his games because he likes the way you call what you see. Alarms should be going off in your head if a coach is getting specific about your style of officiating. The assignor will be a much better judge of matching your level with that of the game than the coaches involved with the game.

Mulk

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I can't really speak to whether you called too many fouls or if the author of the letter was right or wrong. I can just tell you that as you continue to work and learn, your quality calls will inprove and increase and your quantity of calls will decrease.

All contact is not a foul, and all fouls do not need to be called. True story, in a game I worked yesterday, I was lead. The rebound came off on the opposite side of the lane. A1 had B1 blocked out as both players go up. A1 comes down with the ball and my partner at center whistles a foul on B1. Now, was it a foul? Possibly, maybe even probably. But two things hapened. A1 was denied the opoortunity for an easy put back and B1 picked up her 3rd foul. So while it may have been a foul, IMHO it was a bad whistle. Everybody in the gym would have been much happier if the whistle had not blown.

JMO.

Likely many officials (and 'the crowd' - but they are scoring sluts!) generally agree with you.

I think that what you suggest overly favors the offense.

A team (and player) may have fouls to 'use', and not just as the game winds down. A defensive player may make a decision to take a chance that has, as an upside, either getting the ball or fouling - where fouling takes away an easy scoring opportunity. A defensive player should not have to foul extraordinarily hard (risking an intentional foul) to get a call.


[Edited by assignmentmaker on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 04:33 PM]

[Sirrefalot]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
Unless this veteran official is on the local officails' association executive, I think he overstepped his bounds.

Having said that, that don't matter because the damage is done - the assignor believes this guy.

I think running to the assignor and tattling on someone is like talking about officials while in the stands, etc... - don't do it. (If the ref is sooooo bad that he is WAY WAY over their head, then maybe that call is just. Even then, the assignor should watch that official work and make his own decision.)

How has your association thought of your ability during FR and JV games? Maybe this veteran is jealous you got a V game in your 2nd year. Has he been locked out of a V sked? Was he upset because his daughter was fouled and he wants justice? It takes all kinds in this world...

Shortly after that particular game in which the veteran official sent the e-mail to the assignor and myself the association sent an observer to evaluate my game performance (which I welcomed)The observer gave me some advice went over my evaluation in which I rated very high. The assignor also e-mailed me and told me that the e-mail would not affect my assignments in the future. I just thought that it was unprofessional for him to send an e-mail to the assignor. I watch my son play every Tuesday and friday and if i sent an e-mail to the assignor everytime I thought one of my fellow officials slighted my son I would need a new key board.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Sirrefalot
...I would need a new key board.

Get a Blackberry.

[JRutledge]

Everyone has an opinion. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Some opinions are going to carry more weight than other opinions. There really is nothing you can do be try to work games to get better and work hard at it. Unfortunately not everyone is going to talk to you personally or tell you what they think. I also do not see the official as being out of line to tell the assignor what they think. It is up to the assignor or evaluator to use the information as they see fit. It sounds like this guy that wrote the letter must be a respected official and possibly his opinion carries some weight. Just understand that every game you are being watched by someone and someone might just share their opinion about the job you do whether it is positive or negative. Sometimes you do not go back to places because you were not available to work at that school or the assignor did not make an effort to send you back. It might have little to do with the letter unless you were told directly that was a factor. For all you know the coach might have complained and this letter did further damage.

Do not let it keep you down, just learn from it and move on.

Peace

[Sirrefalot]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Get a Blackberry.

? Got a rasberry once.... Hurt like heck.

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Get a Blackberry.

I was trying to get my partners to the court on time . . . we were in a far off locker room . . . my cell (Verizon) showed one time and a partner's Blackberry was about 15 minutes different. Does this compute?

As I recall, I never originally 'set' the time in my cellphone - I have always assumed it comes from the network. Do you use a Blackberry? Is it a different situation, perhaps because the Blackberry is more computer-like. Do you 'set' it's time internally? Otherwise, what could explain such a difference!?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Sirrefalot

Shortly after that particular game in which the veteran official sent the e-mail to the assignor and myself the association sent an observer to evaluate my game performance (which I welcomed)The observer gave me some advice went over my evaluation in which I rated very high. The assignor also e-mailed me and told me that the e-mail would not affect my assignments in the future. I just thought that it was unprofessional for him to send an e-mail to the assignor. I watch my son play every Tuesday and friday and if i sent an e-mail to the assignor everytime I thought one of my fellow officials slighted my son I would need a new key board.

It sounds like your assignor knows what this "veteran" official is up to. I wouldn't worry about it any more at all. Just keep getting better, and you'll find that the politics get easier. And keep not sending e-mails when your son gets slighted.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
I was trying to get my partners to the court on time . . . we were in a far off locker room . . . my cell (Verizon) showed one time and a partner's Blackberry was about 15 minutes different. Does this compute?

As I recall, I never originally 'set' the time in my cellphone - I have always assumed it comes from the network. Do you use a Blackberry? Is it a different situation, perhaps because the Blackberry is more computer-like. Do you 'set' it's time internally? Otherwise, what could explain such a difference!?

Yes, the BB is computer-like. My Blackberry has its time set by the network. But you don't have to use it that way. I actually prefer the Treo over the BB. The new Treo 700 uses Windows Mobile, so you'll have even more apps to use. Although, the Palm apps are quite good.

[Adam]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

I think that what you suggest overly favors the offense.

A team (and player) may have fouls to 'use', and not just as the game winds down. A defensive player may make a decision to take a chance that has, as an upside, either getting the ball or fouling - where fouling takes away an easy scoring opportunity. A defensive player should not have to foul extraordinarily hard (risking an intentional foul) to get a call.
[Edited by assignmentmaker on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 04:33 PM]

So, you're going to reward a defensive player who is out of position by calling contact that, by definition, isn't a foul? If there's no advantage gained, where's the foul? By calling a foul when there isn't one, you're actually creating an advantage for the defense that isn't in the rules.

[Adam]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Yes, the BB is computer-like. My Blackberry has its time set by the network. But you don't have to use it that way. I actually prefer the Treo over the BB. The new Treo 700 uses Windows Mobile, so you'll have even more apps to use. Although, the Palm apps are quite good.

My Verizon phone gets the time from the network. As soon as I cross a time-zone line, it changes time.