Five second responsibility

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Glad we do not use them anymore then. That would be stupid in my opinion to have the Lead calling a closely guarded call that moves away from them.

Peace

It's no more stupid than having the C or T stay with a count on a play that moves away from them. Though I will say that the situation just doesn't happen very often.

I've had it happen to me as L that I began a 5 second count and the play moved away from me and out of my area. I dropped my count because I'd never seen the L follow a count out of his area. But had I kept my count, it clearly would have been a five second violation.

I talked to several officials I trust in the days following about what I should have done. The majority opinion was that "because nobody does that" is a pretty weak rationale for not making an obvious call. I agree. The next time that happens, I will stay with the play and make the call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

It's no more stupid than having the C or T stay with a count on a play that moves away from them. Though I will say that the situation just doesn't happen very often.

I disagree. Five seconds is not that long and you have a much better angle. The Lead in 3 Person all of a sudden has to make a call that is likely going away from them and likely straight lined on such a call.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree. Five seconds is not that long and you have a much better angle. The Lead in 3 Person all of a sudden has to make a call that is likely going away from them and likely straight lined on such a call.

Peace

I do believe this is the first time I've ever heard the notion of being straight-lined brought up in a discussion about five seconds/closely guarded.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I do believe this is the first time I've ever heard the notion of being straight-lined brought up in a discussion about five seconds/closely guarded.

Agreed, although if you were straight-lined, you might not know whether the defender was within 6 feet. I don't know that it's any more likely for lead to have this problem than C or T, or that it's more difficult to fix.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed, although if you were straight-lined, you might not know whether the defender was within 6 feet. I don't know that it's any more likely for lead to have this problem than C or T, or that it's more difficult to fix.

Yep. As far as I can tell, the argument for the L not having a 5 second count consists mostly of ... "nobody does it". I can see that a 5 second call on a post up on the block would be quite unexpected, and that would get you some grief. I can see that it would be difficult to maintain both a 3 second and a 5 second count on the same player. But nobody seems to be making those arguments (well, I guess "unexpected" is related to "nobody does that").

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Yep. As far as I can tell, the argument for the L not having a 5 second count consists mostly of ... "nobody does it". I can see that a 5 second call on a post up on the block would be quite unexpected, and that would get you some grief. I can see that it would be difficult to maintain both a 3 second and a 5 second count on the same player. But nobody seems to be making those arguments (well, I guess "unexpected" is related to "nobody does that").

I was told this a long time ago why the Lead should not have a closely guarded count at least in the mechanics systems I work. That being said the primary reason you have another official on the floor is to help the lead cover the post and not focus on all other things away from the basket and away from looking at bodies near the basket. I just think it would be counterproductive with the current coverage areas.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

So in your mechanics system, does the T ever start a 5 count on a post play in front of the L?