Free Throws

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Not only are you wrong but grunewar has already given you the case play in this thread.

8.7 SITUATION B: B1 fouls A1 just as the first quarter ends and then A1 retaliates and intentionally contacts B1. A1’s foul is a technical foul as it occurred during a dead ball. Team A is in the bonus. The officials by mistake administer the penalty for the technical foul before the free throw(s) by A1.
RULING: The penalties should have been administered in the order in which the fouls occurred. However, since all merited free throws were attempted it does not constitute a correctable error situation. The second quarter will begin with an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-19-5c)

Agree...once all the FTs had been taken. It doesn't not address the situation where the first FTs were skipped and not yet taken....which is a correctable error. They are merited FTs that were not awarded and the ball had been made live for other action. If they are not yet taken, it makes no distinction between skipping them because of getting the order wrong vs. skipping them because they table has the bonus count wrong....they were not taken when merited.

In the out-of-order situation, there is no longer anything to correct once they're taken...so it is no longer a correctable error....but it was until they were taken. Once they're taken, the situation becomes an official's mistake rather than a correctable error.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agree...once all the FTs had been taken. It doesn't not address the situation where the first FTs were skipped and not yet taken....which is a correctable error.

I understand your premise but I still disagree.

The play itself says, "The officials by mistake administer the penalty for the technical foul before the free throw(s) by A1." That statement does not indicate the foul FTs have already been taken. We all know how screwy some of these plays are worded. If we've shot the T but haven't shot the 1 & 1 yet, I'm not going to make the team re-shoot the technical just so we can say we did it in the correct order, when the case book says it's not an issue as long as all merited FTs are awarded.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I understand your premise but I still disagree.

The play itself says, "The officials by mistake administer the penalty for the technical foul before the free throw(s) by A1." That statement does not indicate the foul FTs have already been taken.

While the statement of the play doesn't directly say they have been taken, it can be read that way, and the ruling makes it clear that they were taken by concluding....

since all merited free throws were attempted it does not constitute a correctable error situation

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

We all know how screwy some of these plays are worded. If we've shot the T but haven't shot the 1 & 1 yet, I'm not going to make the team re-shoot the technical just so we can say we did it in the correct order, when the case book says it's not an issue as long as all merited FTs are awarded.

OK. I don't see anyone suggesting otherwise.

If you've not shot merited FTs and have resumed the game by awarding other FTs or awarding a throwin, it becomes a correctable error situation...that is the basic definiation of a correctable error. The ball was put in play (made live) without awarding merited FTs. As a result, you'll shoot them at the time it is discovered that they need to be taken...assuming the time window for correcting the error has not passed. The FTs already taken for another foul of any kind shall stand as well as any other action that had occurred. You resume play whereever you were before taking the FTs....possession OOB as part of the penalty for the T (in this case) or possession OOB for the team that has the ball if the throwin for the T had already occurred.

If it so happens that you realize that they were taken out of order after they've been taken, it WAS a correctable error situation but it has already been corrected....so it is now just a mistake that no longer needs correction.

[BktBallRef]

Oh well...I know what I'm doing if we screw this up.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Oh well...I know what I'm doing if we screw this up.

I'm pretty sure I do, too. But let's compare notes. What are you doing?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I'm pretty sure I do, too. But let's compare notes. What are you doing?

You're clearing the line for the 1-and-1 and giving Team B the ball at the division line.

[Terrance "TJ"]

I just want to clarify my understanding here. On the OP having that situation applied to middle/jr. high or high school ball, the correct procedure is that all technicals are shot after any free throws needing to be shot. Do I still remember some of the rules? (I had a rocky and very short season last year, hoping I haven't lost all of what I learned last year. Is there an 'intro' thread I came bore you all with my story?)

I was given both an 08-09 IAABO HS edition rule book as well as 09-10 NFHS rule book for use here in CO. So I guess we call by NFHS, never had that discussion in our meetings, have read from both and been right using either book.

[tref]

What city do you work in? As far as I knew, the entire State of Colorado is affiliated with IAABO Board 4.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Terrance "TJ"

I just want to clarify my understanding here. On the OP having that situation applied to middle/jr. high or high school ball, the correct procedure is that all technicals are shot after any free throws needing to be shot. Do I still remember some of the rules? (I had a rocky and very short season last year, hoping I haven't lost all of what I learned last year. Is there an 'intro' thread I came bore you all with my story?)

The correct procedure is to enforce the fouls in the order they occurrred.

If that doesn't happen, and it turns out that FTs are shot "out of order", then it's a mistake, but all the FTs count.

I was given both an 08-09 IAABO HS edition rule book as well as 09-10 NFHS rule book for use here in CO. So I guess we call by NFHS, never had that discussion in our meetings, have read from both and been right using either book.

I don't think there's really any such thing as "IABBO Rules." There are IABBO mechanics, and maybe some state adopted rules.