Blarge administration

[tjones1]

Who are you going to give the one shot to?

Not a recent change, all doubles go POI.

[JRutledge]

What we call a "blarge" is always a double foul by rule. All double fouls go to POI. And if the shot is in the air before the foul, then the basket can count too (or if a violation like goal tending is committed). This rule has been this way for about 4 years now. Not sure what has changed or what you could think has changed.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What we call a "blarge" is always a double foul by rule. All double fouls go to POI. And if the shot is in the air before the foul, then the basket can count too

Excellent explanation. My favorite explanation was given at camp once: "Charge both fouls, score it if it's in the air and go to the POI. Then fire those two f*&^ers!"

Not to pile on, Zee, but when did we ever give 1 free throw in this sitch?

[GoodwillRef]

When are NCAAM and the NFHS going to follow the NCAAW and not allow a change to be called? The two calling officials must get together and decide whos call it is and make one call. Make one coach mad...not two.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

When are NCAAM and the NFHS going to follow the NCAAW and not allow a change to be called? The two calling officials must get together and decide whos call it is and make one call. Make one coach mad...not two.

Couldn't agree more!! Give it up to the primary and move on.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

Couldn't agree more!! Give it up to the primary and move on.

And who's primary is it in if both players have one foot in each area and are moving along the dividing line of the two area?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And who's primary is it in if both players have one foot in each area and are moving along the dividing line of the two area?

That is why you get together and talk about it, that is why you cover this during your pregame. I think to give it up to the officials whos area it is coming out of.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And who's primary is it in if both players have one foot in each area and are moving along the dividing line of the two area?

Anything is better than having to call a double foul!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

When are NCAAM and the NFHS going to follow the NCAAW and not allow a change to be called? The two calling officials must get together and decide whos call it is and make one call. Make one coach mad...not two.

I think that is a dumb mechanic and I seriously doubt that the Men's side is going to change that. It is easy to avoid if you do the right things. But to have both officials call something and only pick one in that case is just silly. I would never advocate that mechanic. And if officials would just raise their hand we would not have to worry about this.

Peace

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think that is a dumb mechanic and I seriously doubt that the Men's side is going to change that. It is easy to avoid if you do the right things. But to have both officials call something and only pick one in that case is just silly. I would never advocate that mechanic. And if officials would just raise their hand we would not have to worry about this.

Peace

JRut,

If this was a perfect world that would work but there were a lot of blarges at the D1 men's level last season. It can't be a block and a charge...it has to be one or the other. We would love for officials to be more patient and work in their primary but blarges are going to happen and IMO getting together is the lesser of two evils here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

JRut,

If this was a perfect world that would work but there were a lot of blarges at the D1 men's level last season. It can't be a block and a charge...it has to be one or the other. We would love for officials to be more patient and work in their primary but blarges are going to happen and IMO getting together is the lesser of two evils here.

There are a lot of blarges in D1 men's because the officials refuse to simply raise their hands to make a simple PC foul call. They run out to call something immediately. If they stopped doing that and supervisors stopped hiring guys or never punishing them for this, then they would not have that problem. I still think it is a silly mechanic to choose and put more responsibility on officials to avoid such situations is better. Just an opinion.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

If this was a perfect world that would work but there were a lot of blarges at the D1 men's level last season. It can't be a block and a charge...it has to be one or the other. We would love for officials to be more patient and work in their primary but blarges are going to happen and IMO getting together is the lesser of two evils here.

Yup. In the immortal words of Mother Teresa... "Sh!t happens!" And it happened to some of the better D1 guys last year too. You just have to adjudicate the play by the ruleset being used.

[tref]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

there were a lot of blarges at the D1 men's level last season.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is easy to avoid if you do the right things.

Pregame... pregame... pregame!

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think that is a dumb mechanic and I seriously doubt that the Men's side is going to change that. It is easy to avoid if you do the right things. But to have both officials call something and only pick one in that case is just silly. I would never advocate that mechanic. And if officials would just raise their hand we would not have to worry about this.

Peace

I'd bet good money that THIS is the reason why J.D. Collins cares so much about officials stopping the clock on all fouls and violations (He said so in the 2017-18 NCAA men's basketball mechanics video on YouTube, and the men's CCA manual has written instructions that stopping the clock (with open hand or fist) is required on ALL fouls and violations). If an official posts a fist, he can look for another fist or hand. For example, the Big 12 All-Access video showed a play in the Baylor-OU game where James Breeding, the L, raised his fist to call a charge by Quincy Acy of Baylor, but saw that Joe DeRosa, the T, had a different foul on Oklahoma 21, and wisely held off, because the foul by 21 caused Acy to charge.

Officials can come together if both raise a fist, but once the block and charge are both signalled, in NCAAM or NFHS rules, the calls cannot be withdrawn. This, therefore, is a situation where an ounce of prevention (using proper signals to stop the clock and scanning the floor before making a preliminary signal) is worth a pound of cure (enforcing both fouls).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... stopping the clock (with open hand or fist) is required on ALL fouls and violations). If an official posts a fist, he can look for another fist or hand .. an ounce of prevention (using proper signals to stop the clock ...

Good point. IAABO international, state, and local, have been telling us (with international observers criticizing our guys in our state tournament) for years to always use one of the three stop the clock signals, and telling us, and telling us, and telling us. They never bothered to tell us why. This is a good rationale. It's really not about stopping the clock, is it?

Of course officials can argue about the real need for the stop the clock signal for out of bounds plays, but that's another story for another time.