Illegal Uniforms ???

[BktBallRef]

I've got a headache.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I've got a headache.

it's called "paralysis through analysis".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's called "paralysis through analysis".

OK, so you're not pleased that I broke it down into a few different situations, each with a slight variation. I can understand that. But the bottom line is:

Are my interpretations correct?

Can a general statement be made regarding NFHS 10-5-4 that the infraction can be penalized at any time, up until the officials leave the confines of the gym, if the player with the illegal uniform (illegal number) actually participated in the game as one of the five players, even if there was a time lag between said player participating and the discovery of the infraction?

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

OK, so you're not pleased that I broke it down into a few different situations, each with a slight variation. I can understand that. But the bottom line is:

Are my interpretations correct?

Can a general statement be made regarding NFHS 10-5-4 that the infraction can be penalized at any time, up until the officials leave the confines of the gym, if the player with the illegal uniform (illegal number) actually participated in the game as one of the five players, even if there was a time lag between said player participating and the discovery of the infraction?

For simplifying purposes:

Play 1: The officials notice A16 wearing an illegal uniform while he is on the court.

Play 2: A16 never participates, but his name and number are in the book.

Play 3: The officials notice A16 wearing an illegal uniform just after he leaves the game for a substitute.

Play 4: The officials notice A16 wearing an illegal uniform long after he leaves the game, even after the final horn has sounded.


Assuming that I have those situations correct, these are my interpretations:

Play 1 - T.
Play 2 - No T.
Play 3 and Play 4 are logically equivalent. I would be inclined to rule both as T's.

The relevant question: Is there a "statute of limitations" on when an illegal uniform T can be issued?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sseltser

Play 1: The officials notice A16 wearing an illegal uniform while he is on the court.
Play 2: A16 never participates, but his name and number are in the book.
Play 3: The officials notice A16 wearing an illegal uniform just after he leaves the game for a substitute.
Play 4: The officials notice A16 wearing an illegal uniform long after he leaves the game, even after the final horn has sounded.
Assuming that I have those situations correct, these are my interpretations:
Play 1 - T.
Play 2 - No T.
Play 3 and Play 4 are logically equivalent. I would be inclined to rule both as T's.

I concur. Any other interpretations out there in Official Forum Land?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I concur. Any other interpretations out there in Official Forum Land?

I agree with the answers by sselter. Also, there is no statute of limitations on an illegal uniform direct T to the head coach. If it can be proven that the player participated while wearing an illegal uniform, then the penalty is warranted.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I agree with the answers by sselter. Also, there is no statute of limitations on an illegal uniform direct T to the head coach. If it can be proven that the player participated while wearing an illegal uniform, then the penalty is warranted.

Just so that I'm clear:

If A25 enters the game, but is not in the book, and leaves the game with no one noticing, then A25 does not need to be added (with a penalty of a T) unless he is substituted back into the game.

If A16 is in the game (and in the book) and leaves, then HC of team A can be issued a direct T for the illegal uniform at any point that it is dicovered until the official's jurisdiction ends.


New play (call if play #5): A16 is not listed in the official scorebook and is wearing an illegal uniform. A16 enters the game and the scorer does not notify the official that A16 needs to be entered into the book and none of the officials notice that A16 is wearing an illegal uniform. A16 leaves the game 1 minute later and a)does not return or b) returns in the fourth quarter. In both a) and b), after A16 leaves the game, the situation is brought to the attention of the officials.

Question: In a) Should HC A be issued a T for the illegal uniform when the officials notice that he participated? Does it matter that A16 is not in the book?

In b) Should HC A be issued a T for the illegal uniform when the officials notice that he participated? When A16 attempts to enter the game in the 4th quarter, is A also issued a T for adding the player into the book?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sseltser

The relevant question: Is there a "statute of limitations" on when an illegal uniform T can be issued?

I don't think so, but I'm willing to hear other viewpoints.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by sseltser

For simplifying purposes:

Play 1: The officials notice A16 wearing an illegal uniform while he is on the court.

Play 2: A16 never participates, but his name and number are in the book.

Play 3: The officials notice A16 wearing an illegal uniform just after he leaves the game for a substitute.

Play 4: The officials notice A16 wearing an illegal uniform long after he leaves the game, even after the final horn has sounded.


Assuming that I have those situations correct, these are my interpretations:

Play 1 - T.
Play 2 - No T.
Play 3 and Play 4 are logically equivalent. I would be inclined to rule both as T's.

The relevant question: Is there a "statute of limitations" on when an illegal uniform T can be issued?

Agreed with 1 and 2.

3 and 4 are the same as "player with the wrong number in the book who doesn't score or foul" questions we've gone on and on (and on) about over the years. No specific guidance, as far as I recall (but it's still summer and my mind is a million miles from basketball).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

3 and 4 are the same as "player with the wrong number in the book who doesn't score or foul" questions we've gone on and on (and on) about over the years. No specific guidance, as far as I recall (but it's still summer and my mind is a million miles from basketball).

That changed last season when the NFHS did provide some specific guidance.

See 3.2.2 Sit C.

Of course, I've taken the position that the NFHS play ruling is incorrect as it does not mesh with the text of the NFHS rules book.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

See 3.2.2 Sit C.

*3.2.2 SITUATION C: Team A substitute No. 25 reports to the table for the first
time with approximately one minute remaining in the second quarter and is beckoned
onto the court. In (a), the ball is put in play by a throw-in from A1 to A2.
The horn sounds and the scorer informs the officials that No. 25 is not listed in
the scorebook. In (b), No. 25 plays the remainder of the second quarter. During
halftime intermission, the official scorer realizes No. 25 is not listed in the scorebook
and informs the officials when they return to the court before the start of
the third quarter. RULING: In (a), No. 25 is currently in the game and became a
player when he/she legally entered the court. Since his or her name and number
must now be entered into the scorebook, a technical foul is charged to Team A.
In (b), no penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game. If No. 25
attempts to enter the game in the second half, his or her name and number will
be added to the scorebook and a technical foul charged to Team A. (3-2-2b; 10-
1-2b)

4-34:
ART. 1 A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court
at any given time, except intermission.
ART. 2 Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with
a team, including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and
statistician(s). During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are my interpretations correct?

It appears to me that the key word in 10-5-4 is "participate." I take that to mean a player, and not bench personnel.