Ejection ...

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Correct...if they didn't want us to call technical fouls they wouldn't have put them in the rulebook!

Or make them so fun to give out.

OK I don't normally think that but...

Billy, sounds like the coach was more frustrated with his team than anything and he just took it out on the stand-by boogiemen.

[zeedonk]

As I am now moving into my 4th season, I have had the "help or don't help" your partner post-T come up a few times, mainly in 3 whistle.

First of all, I hope I can recognize the veteran partner who can handle a game... and if he whacks a coach, I am not immediately coming over to bail him out. I will simply watch and if things get worse, I will come over and try to stay in my partner's line of vision to see if he gives me the "I got it" sign, at which point I will go somewhere else and begin to gather players and ID a shooter for the free throws.

Of course, we don't always get to pregame during the off season, and I am sure that a school game during the season will have this as part of our pregame.

I just think it looks bad if the partner of an obviously experienced (and capable) official comes running to the rescue because the mechanic says to come get your partner away from the coach... chances are, the vet will take care of business, spin on his heel and begin to move away-- which is my signal to come finish up over there and get things moving again... If he's still there and things are not getting worse, I'm not coming to get him.

If the crew is all about the same experience level, I'll move a little quicker, but again, I'm going to see how my partner handles it. If it's me doing the whacking, I don't run immediately away, but I don't sit and wait for conversation either. Whack, report, turn and begin moving away

Z

[Back In The Saddle]

I'm with the Juggler on this one. 0:45 left in the game, coach hasn't been a problem all game? An "I'll watch that, Coach" should be sufficient to handle the situation.

But there are no magic bullets and if the coach is tired, cranky and really just needs his wittle blankee and a nap, he may well have continued on like he did. You may still have had to toss him. But if were me, I'd feel better about the situation if my first response had been more neutral.

Just my $0.02

[Raymond]

Billy, I'm with Juggs and BITS on this one. In that particular scenario I would not have said "that's enough coach". I think an "I hear you" or "you may be right" or something to that effect would have fit better for this particular situation.

I have no problem with tossing the coach at any point in the game if he earned it.

[tref]

Billy if I recall correctly, you're an IAABO official, right?
Don't you guys practice getting with a partner on Ts before taking it to the table?

In addition to not getting procedures wrong, I think it helps get us away from the coach. And if they continue as in your sitch, now your partner gets to toss him.

As others have mentioned, I think your response may have fueled the fire.
When a team is getting smashed & coach wants to spout off at the end of the game, I generally go with "I hear you, coach" as opposed to "that's enough, coach." JMO

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tref

I generally go with "I hear you, coach" as opposed to "that's enough, coach." JMO

Point taken. I would sure go this route if I could have a do-over. But it just happened so damn fast, and it was totally unexpected.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

When a team is getting smashed & coach wants to spout off at the end of the game, I generally go with "I hear you, coach" as opposed to "that's enough, coach." JMO

And if the coach continues to complain after you tell him "I hear you, coach"...as the coach in Billy's sitch did....what then do you and the others do next? Warn him again? Ignore him?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Some officials can always find a reason NOT to call a technical foul.

Absolutely, and some officials dont have the communication skills or common sense to handle the issue before it gets to the warning &/or T stage.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if the coach continues to complain after you tell him "I hear you, coach"...as the coach in Billy's sitch did....what then do you and the others do next? Warn him again? Ignore him?

Then I'd say "coach that's enough" communicate that to my partners & that will serve as his 1 and only official warning.

BTW "I hear you, coach" isnt an official warning in these parts!
I dont ignore coaches... I'm giving a verbal or non-verbal answer, they just want to know if we hear them, most times.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if the coach continues to complain after you tell him "I hear you, coach"...as the coach in Billy's sitch did....what then do you and the others do next? Warn him again? Ignore him?

There is a difference between (i) "I hear you, coach" with no stop sign signal and (ii) "That's enough coach" with a stop sign.

IF the head coach were to continue after the official saying "I hear you, coach", THEN appropriate action would be taken by the official.

The sign of a fantastic official is to diffuse a situation so that it doesn't blow up. There was no opportunity of that happening in the OP.

There's a quote in Canadian football that goes like this: "the official who, through the influence of his presence, causes players to avoid rule violations has attained the perfect relationship to the game."

Certainly the quote applies to coaches as well. And there's no reason it doesn't apply to basketball as well, including basketball coaches.

The official's presence is in what he says, how he says, and his body language of how he expects the game to proceed.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

There is a difference between (i) "I hear you, coach" with no stop sign signal and (ii) "That's enough coach" with a stop sign.

IF the head coach were to continue after the official saying "I hear you, coach", THEN appropriate action would be taken by the official.

The sign of a fantastic official is to diffuse a situation so that it doesn't blow up. There was no opportunity of that happening in the OP.

1) Oh? And pray tell, whatinthehell is the difference? I sureasheck can't see one. In both cases, you're basically telling the coach that enough is enough. And in Billy's case, the head coach sureashell did continue. He told Billy that "my partner and I were doing a lousy job all night.". If Billy chose to ignore that, he shouldn't have said anything in the first place.

What are you going to do if the coach makes that same personal comment to you after you said "I hear you, coach"? Ignore it? If you do, may I suggest that you should turn in your "fantastic official" badge.

Taking care of bidness doesn't equate to a situation blowing up. We just react to the crap that comes our way. At least we should imo.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Oh? And pray tell, whatinthehell is the difference? I sureasheck can't see one. In both cases, you're basically telling the coach that enough is enough. And in Billy's case, the head coach sureashell did continue. He told Billy that "my partner and I were doing a lousy job all night.". If Billy chose to ignore that, he shouldn't have said anything in the first place.

What are you going to do if the coach makes that same personal comment to you after you said "I hear you, coach"? Ignore it? If you do, may I suggest that you should turn in your "fantastic official" badge.

Taking care of bidness doesn't equate to a situation blowing up. We just react to the crap that comes our way. At least we should imo.

Incorrect.

In the first case, the official is using a tool to deflate the situation. Understand the psychology of the coach: he simply wants to be heard. By the official acknowledging that he is aware of the coach's belief, he can avoid any esculation. By using a tool that brings attention to himself, ie. the stop sign, the official is telling the coach that his opinion doesn't matter. As true as that is, the coach thinking that his opinion does matter means that the game is over without incident.

Liken it to "get in, get done, get out".

At this point, I deal with the coach in a different manner. I certainly don't ignore it. Why would you think I would though, since I didn't ignore a lesser comment? Besides, I don't want to have to take my IAAFO badge off.

Taking care of bidness means giving a T when it is warranted, and avoiding it when possible.

[Adam]

Let me put my thoughts this way; as it played out, I have no problem with either T.
My comments here are strictly regarding the dreaded stop sign. There has been considerable debate on here whether the stop sign works or makes things worse. I've used it successfully on players, and I've used it unsuccessfully on coaches (followed almost immediately by a T).

Those who use it successfully have, almost unanimously, stated that it's an understood and accepted (even prescribed) mechanic in their areas; meaning the coaches are used to it as well and understand what it means. That makes sense to me (although I hate the crap about being able to see the whole thing on tape.) Summer ball, though, is not the time to use a signal that means one thing to regular season basketball coaches and something completely different to parents of teenagers. JMO, of course.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Incorrect.

In the first case, the official is using a tool to deflate the situation. Understand the psychology of the coach: he simply wants to be heard....
.

I agree with you Juggling. The two actions have entirely different meanings. "I hear you" is simply an acknowledgment that you've taken note of what the coach said (even if you promptly forget about it). It is not an instruction to the coach to stop....maybe an implied suggestion but nothing more. "That's enough coach" is a direct and clear instruction for the coach to cease whatever they're doing. I don't think I'd ever T a coach for saying something after "I hear you" unless what they say warrants the T all on its own.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

In the first case, the official is using a tool to deflate the situation. Understand the psychology of the coach: he simply wants to be heard. By the official acknowledging that he is aware of the coach's belief, he can avoid any esculation. By using a tool that brings attention to himself, ie. the stop sign, the official is telling the coach that his opinion doesn't matter. As true as that is, the coach thinking that his opinion does matter means that the game is over without incident.

Liken it to "get in, get done, get out".

Um, aren't all of you kinda forgetting that the damn coach was complaining about the officials missing a call? Whatinthehell does that have to do with the coach having an opinion that doesn't matter. The coach's opinion was that you missed a call. Period. And now he's complaining about you missing that call. Where does it say that the official now has to worry about the poor widdle coach's feelings?

The bottom line is whether you choose to ignore a coach complaining or do you do something about it. And that option is up to the calling official only.

Once the coach complains, you have 3 options....ignore the complaint, warn the coach about continuing to complain or deal with the complaining immediately with a "T". If you choose to warn the coach, the idea is to tell the coach that he's ALREADY had his say and that's enough. And if you can't tell that coach that he's had his say by simply raising your hand in a non-confrontational manner and saying "that's enough, coach", we might as well forget about trying to keep any game under a modicum of control and just sit back and let everybody do what they want to do. That act is about as innocuous as you can get.

Any escalation after receiving a warning about complaining about a call is solely up to the coach. If he wants to ignore a warning, he then deserves everything that he gets. And if an official wants to issue a warning and then refuses to follow up on that warning when a coach ignores it, then that official deserves everything that he gets also.

Every time you blow your whistle, you bring attention to yourself. If you want to stop a coach complaining, you have to bring attention to yourself in some way to do so. Thinking otherwise is just patently ridiculous imo.

Lah me......"he simply wants to be heard" Of course he wants to be heard. That's why he's COMPLAINING!!!!

And note that I am not saying that one way is better than another. Whatever works for you is the best way. I am saying though that imo there is nothing the matter with the way that Billy handled the coach's complaints. He warned the coach about continuing to complain and then he did something about it when the coach refused to heed his warning.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by tref

When a team is getting smashed & coach wants to spout off at the end of the game, I generally go with "I hear you, coach" as opposed to "that's enough, coach." JMO

I agree with the Jurassic one on this. Especially with 45 seconds to go. Don't give the guy a free pass on a parting shot where he said that he thought the crew did a poor job all night. He is expecting to get away with it BECAUSE he is down 30.

Most coaches are smart enough not to use one of those magic words when they complain.