Question @Drive to the Basket

[mbyron]

I think you're making too much of this. An "arm in the back" sounds like a foul to me. Get it when you see it, and don't worry that 3 steps later he starts his shooting motion.

If you wait, you're saying the arm in the back was incidental. In that case, call the shooting foul and ignore the incidental contact. Contact is not additive.

If you make the right call, the game situation is irrelevant IMO.

[Camron Rust]

Let the play develop and finish. If the offensive player is able to play through it and get to the point of the shot, why stop the play? The offensive player was able to get to the spot they desired with the defender left trailing the play. The offensive player was, since they were able to beat their opponent, not disadvantaged by the contact. Calling that foul takes 2 points away from the offensive team. It may even take 3 points away if the player continues to push during the shot (vs. the ball OOB)....a much better time to call it if it needs to be called.


If, on the other other hand, the contact slowed down the offensive player such that their opportunity to shoot was eliminated or made distinctly more difficult, that contact becomes a foul.

I try to anticipate what the offensive player/team really wants to do (score). If my whistle will prevent that, then it is not a good call.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Let the play develop and finish. If the offensive player is able to play through it and get to the point of the shot, why stop the play? The offensive player was able to get to the spot they desired with the defender left trailing the play. The offensive player was, since they were able to beat their opponent, not disadvantaged by the contact. Calling that foul takes 2 points away from the offensive team. It may even take 3 points away if the player continues to push during the shot (vs. the ball OOB)....a much better time to call it if it needs to be called.


If, on the other other hand, the contact slowed down the offensive player such that their opportunity to shoot was eliminated or made distinctly more difficult, that contact becomes a foul.

I try to anticipate what the offensive player/team really wants to do (score). If my whistle will prevent that, then it is not a good call.

This explanation is exactly what my mentor shared with me when I asked the same question a few weeks ago.

Furthermore, I was instructed to utilize the "push" signal a majority of the time that I see a "hand check". Mainly because, if I'm going to go get that "hand check" it had better be because the defender actually altered the speed and course of the ball handler...which is probably best described/explained as a "push".

This doesn't mean "hand checks" don't happen or aren't legit calls - just that they can be viewed as a weak call in many situations and make it even more difficult for a crew to "call it the same on both ends".

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by DLH17

This explanation is exactly what my mentor shared with me when I asked the same question a few weeks ago.

Furthermore, I was instructed to utilize the "push" signal a majority of the time that I see a "hand check". Mainly because, if I'm going to go get that "hand check" it had better be because the defender actually altered the speed and course of the ball handler...which is probably best described/explained as a "push".

This doesn't mean "hand checks" don't happen or aren't legit calls - just that they can be viewed as a weak call in many situations and make it even more difficult for a crew to "call it the same on both ends".

What? If it is a hand check signal a hand check. This is a great example why kids keep playing with their hands and not moving their feet. When I have a hand check I make sure everyone know I have one. I want to make sure the ball handler is not getting mugged, held, or re-routed by the defender. Call the handcheck...it is not a push...a push is a push. When I follow you two nights later and have the same team and I call the rule (hand checks) the way it is supposed to be called I am the one catching crap because you are doing your job correctly.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

What? If it is a hand check signal a hand check. This is a great example why kids keep playing with their hands and not moving their feet. When I have a hand check I make sure everyone know I have one. I want to make sure the ball handler is not getting mugged, held, or re-routed by the defender. Call the handcheck...it is not a push...a push is a push. When I follow you two nights later and have the same team and I call the rule (hand checks) the way it is supposed to be called I am the one catching crap because you are doing your job correctly.

Most of the time, I'll tell a player to "keep your hands off and move your feet" when defending above the FT line extended (not driving to the bucket) in the early going and this is where I will more than likely call a "hand check" if the player doesn't immediately drop the hands. It's the drive to the bucket where the odds of me using a "hand check" signal will give way to the "push" signal.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Most of the time, I'll tell a player to "keep your hands off and move your feet" when defending above the FT line extended (not driving to the bucket) in the early going and this is where I will more than likely call a "hand check" if the player doesn't immediately drop the hands. It's the drive to the bucket where the odds of me using a "hand check" signal will give way to the "push" signal.

Probably not a good thing to do. Officials should refrain from coaching. Many coaches get upset when officials instruct their players.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Probably not a good thing to do. Officials should refrain from coaching. Many coaches get upset when officials instruct their players.

Hmmmm....you never take the opportunity to have a little sidebar with a player during a game? I think taking a moment to talk with players about issues on the court and being approachable for players is a part of good game management. And, no, I'm not suggesting officials should have running conversations with one or multiple players in every contest.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Most of the time, I'll tell a player to "keep your hands off and move your feet" when defending above the FT line extended (not driving to the bucket) in the early going and this is where I will more than likely call a "hand check" if the player doesn't immediately drop the hands. It's the drive to the bucket where the odds of me using a "hand check" signal will give way to the "push" signal.

Is hand checking a foul? Let me answer my own quesiton...yes...then we need to call it and usually they stop doing it. At times we are our own worst enemies.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Is hand checking a foul? Let me answer my own quesiton...yes...then we need to call it and usually they stop doing it. At times we are our own worst enemies.

Absolutely. And, I hear you...a foul is a foul is a foul.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Most of the time, I'll tell a player to "keep your hands off and move your feet" when defending above the FT line extended (not driving to the bucket) in the early going and this is where I will more than likely call a "hand check" if the player doesn't immediately drop the hands. It's the drive to the bucket where the odds of me using a "hand check" signal will give way to the "push" signal.

Why are you telling players to "move your feet"?

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why are you telling players to "move your feet"?

Seriously? I think you know the answer.

[Scrapper1]

For what it's worth, from the '08-'09 POEs:

"Regardless of where it happens on the floor, when a player. . . continuously places a hand on the opposing player -- it is a foul."

The above is nearly verbatim from the '03-'04 POEs. Handchecking is not always a matter of advantage/disadvantage.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

For what it's worth, from the '08-'09 POEs:

"Regardless of where it happens on the floor, when a player. . . continuously places a hand on the opposing player -- it is a foul."

The above is nearly verbatim from the '03-'04 POEs. Handchecking is not always a matter of advantage/disadvantage.

The explanation for this which I have heard, and I think has merit, is that continuous contact is, in itself, a significant advantage. It lets the defender measure his opponent, helping him keep a uniform distance. It also uses the defender's sense of touch to supplement his sight in reacting to the offensive player's movement.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

What? If it is a hand check signal a hand check. This is a great example why kids keep playing with their hands and not moving their feet. When I have a hand check I make sure everyone know I have one. I want to make sure the ball handler is not getting mugged, held, or re-routed by the defender. Call the handcheck...it is not a push...a push is a push. When I follow you two nights later and have the same team and I call the rule (hand checks) the way it is supposed to be called I am the one catching crap because you are doing your job correctly.

Actually, GWR, until a few years ago, there was no "Hand Check" signal. While the rules on contact were the same, we only had the choices of Push, Hold, Illegal use of Hands, or Block. The "Hand Check" was only added to give the official another angle for commnication.

Many possible fouls fit more than one foul type. The "Hand Check" foul is a fully redundant foul. If you think about it a bit, a "Hand Check" can ALWAYS be called at least one of the other types of fouls. If they have not pushed or held with the hand, it is probably not a hand check. It would also be illegal use of hands in nearly every case.

Even in your description above, you used the word "held". "re-routed" would be a push. "Mugged" would either be illegal hands, push, or hold.

So, it is not necessary to ever call it as a hand check since the action also always fits the definition of at least one other type of foul.

No coach/player is ever going to quibble over whether you call it a push or a hand check.