Things I learned at camp

[Mrcrash3]

RichMSN and J Rut +1
Ron's clinic time was devoted to HS ball he made sure we understood this. He also agreed with Rich that too many fouls are called on the floor. ( This term does not appear in any rule or case book)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mrcrash3

RichMSN and J Rut +1
Ron's clinic time was devoted to HS ball he made sure we understood this. He also agreed with Rich that too many fouls are called on the floor. ( This term does not appear in any rule or case book)

While I have a problem with "on the floor," that's only a part of the problem. Even officials who don't use the term are too quick to wave off a shot, and that's Rich's point.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

While I have a problem with "on the floor," that's only a part of the problem. Even officials who don't use the term are too quick to wave off a shot, and that's Rich's point.

I have noticed that trend here with several of my partners. It could be the level I'm working right now also.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I have noticed that trend here with several of my partners. It could be the level I'm working right now also.

Most likely it is, I've noticed the higher level (even HS) guys are more apt to call this correctly. Around here, I get the opportunity to work with seasoned varsity officials and 2nd year officials just getting to the JV level. But I've also seen the seasoned officials make this call. While I defer to their judgment and am very slow to question them (and careful about how I do it), I have seen a few calls that I disagreed with on this issue.

And Rich, I think, works varsity almost exclusively.

[GoodwillRef]

I was working at a camp this weekend and we had some issues with campers calling fouls on the ground instead of giving the player 2 shots. Have a patient whistle and know when the offensive player "gathers" the ball and start their habitual motion to shoot the basketball...when in doubt give two shots...don't penalize the offense since the defense committed a foul.

Good point Rich, at the HS level we wave off way too many shots!

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I have noticed that trend here with several of my partners. It could be the level I'm working right now also.

Which level are you working right now?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I was working at a camp this weekend and we had some issues with campers calling fouls on the ground instead of giving the player 2 shots. Have a patient whistle and know when the offensive player "gathers" the ball and start their habitual motion to shoot the basketball...when in doubt give two shots...don't penalize the offense since the defense committed a foul.

Good point Rich, at the HS level we wave off way too many shots!

This is a good point. Hold the whistle an extra half-second or so and it becomes a much less "controversial" call or one you have to sell. The call is the same (shots) and is just as correct, but the patient whistle makes the call easier for the coaches to understand.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Most likely it is, I've noticed the higher level (even HS) guys are more apt to call this correctly. Around here, I get the opportunity to work with seasoned varsity officials and 2nd year officials just getting to the JV level. But I've also seen the seasoned officials make this call. While I defer to their judgment and am very slow to question them (and careful about how I do it), I have seen a few calls that I disagreed with on this issue.

And Rich, I think, works varsity almost exclusively.

I do work only varsity and juco, but this is a skill (patient whistle and learning when the ball is gathered in) that should be learned much earlier in one's career. And like Snaq, I see way to many 20-to-30 years guys erroneously wiping off a shot when at the minimum it should be a shooting foul (and a basket if the ball goes in).

It's one of my real pet peeves.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Which level are you working right now?

Jr High/Freshman mostly though I did have a couple of Sophomore and JV games. I've only done one season of basketball.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by richmsn

i do work only varsity and juco, but this is a skill (patient whistle and learning when the ball is gathered in) that should be learned much earlier in one's career. And like snaq, i see way to many 20-to-30 years guys erroneously wiping off a shot when at the minimum it should be a shooting foul (and a basket if the ball goes in).

It's one of my real pet peeves.

+111111111!!!!!!!

[bainsey]

I also fully agree with the patient whistle, and I try to implement it myself, but what is it about basketball where some people expect a quicker whistle than other sports?

[Mrcrash3]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is a good point. Hold the whistle an extra half-second or so and it becomes a much less "controversial" call or one you have to sell. The call is the same (shots) and is just as correct, but the patient whistle makes the call easier for the coaches to understand.

+1
I have been working on this concept for the last 2-3 seasons
This is turned into a good post with a great exchange of ideas and information. Thanx to all

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I also fully agree with the patient whistle, and I try to implement it myself, but what is it about basketball where some people expect a quicker whistle than other sports?

"Late whistle" complaints? I've found that "late whistle" is code for, "I know it was the right call, but I have to whine about something." I also haven't heard one in a long time, to be honest.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I also fully agree with the patient whistle, and I try to implement it myself, but what is it about basketball where some people expect a quicker whistle than other sports?

Some situations should have a quick whistle; other situations might need a half-count longer for assessment. There's no problem at all with a quick whistle on violations and obvious fouls. The patient whistle is usually used to determine advantage/disadvantage on contact.

You can't make up hard and fast rules on when to blow your whistle. The situation determines that, and every situation is different.

In my opinion, there's a lot of confusion as to what a patient whistle actually is.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Have a patient whistle and know when the offensive player "gathers" the ball and start their habitual motion to shoot the basketball...when in doubt give two shots...don't penalize the offense since the defense committed a foul.

Imo the timing of the whistle is meaningless. What the calling official really needs to do is take the extra second to determine if the ball the ball was gathered or not at the time of the foul.

The whistle isn't the problem. The problem is the official not calling the play properly. And maybe the right idea is to get the official to think about the play for a second after he blows the whistle but before he declares whether it was a shooting foul or not. You have to drill it into their heads that when they see a foul, they also have to immediately check to see the status of the ball at the same time. If they don't do that, it doesn't matter how "patient" the whistle is anyway. They're just guessing.

JMO.