Things I learned at camp

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If he SAID that, I certainly hope you T'd him up. He showed you up big time.

I don't know. The image I have is that "Phooey on you" is almost too silly to be taken seriously. I might be too astonishedly amused to call the T.

Thanks to Hornets and Jurassic for the explanations. Jurassic, your asterisks strike me curious, though.

[DLH17]

Good feedback.

Let's elevate this a little bit and insert this situation into a regular season and/or post season varsity game.

Same logic applies? Or, does the levity, etc of the game change things a bit?

[Adam]

To me, it's one of the triggers that can bring an ABS T. Or, in Welpe's case, when you are giving the coach the explanation he has asked for and he gives you the hand in the middle of it; fire away.

[asdf]

His action of visibly waving you off was not intended for you, but for those in attendance.

He just told everybody that he has no respect for you.

Have a seat coach.......

[CLH]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Good feedback.

Let's elevate this a little bit and insert this situation into a regular season and/or post season varsity game.

Same logic applies? Or, does the levity, etc of the game change things a bit?

You were given the post season assignment because whoever gave it to you trusts you for your judgment, consistency, and mangement style...Why would you change the standards by which you work? A technical foul is the same in every game. No way on earth I'd change my tolerance or standards because this is a so called "big game."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mrcrash3

Long time lurker-infrequent poster. I had to share my camp experience: I had a great experience at a HS camp. I got yelled at for ball watching, and once for not calling an intentional foul. I saw the contact, but didn’t see the push in the back at the lead. I took the blame for getting straight-lined. My partner at the C bailed me out with the intentional call.
My clinician was retired NBA official Ron Olesiak. My partners and I jelled after the first half of the first game, and he recommended us for varsity games to our assignor. Wow! Ron then asked us to stay after our last game to talk advanced officiating for a few minutes. This turned into a one hour personal clinic. We covered RSBQ, continuation, block/charge, verticality, and types of contact that warrant a foul plus a great deal more. It was Fantastic!

+1

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Jurassic, your asterisks strike me curious, though.

Deal with it.

[KenThree]

He gave you what everyone in my house knows as the b-s wave.

My wife knows the b-s wave when she sees it; my kids know the b-s wave they see it. And when they see it happen at a game I am ref-ing, they know what's happening next.

It shows complete disrespect for what you're doing out there and that any reasonable communication with the coach is not possible. He simply is telling you to "go fry ice"

Take care of it.

[ref3808]

Learned SO much. I think what impressed me most was the patience and enthusiasm shown by the instructors. What a great learning experience.

Of course I also learned that it's time to get serious about taking care of myself it I want to keep officiating. The DVD doesn't lie, the weight needs to come off.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mrcrash3

Long time lurker-infrequent poster. I had to share my camp experience: I had a great experience at a HS camp. I got yelled at for ball watching, and once for not calling an intentional foul. I saw the contact, but didn’t see the push in the back at the lead. I took the blame for getting straight-lined. My partner at the C bailed me out with the intentional call.
My clinician was retired NBA official Ron Olesiak. My partners and I jelled after the first half of the first game, and he recommended us for varsity games to our assignor. Wow! Ron then asked us to stay after our last game to talk advanced officiating for a few minutes. This turned into a one hour personal clinic. We covered RSBQ, continuation, block/charge, verticality, and types of contact that warrant a foul plus a great deal more. It was Fantastic!

I'm glad that you had a wonderful experience. The avocation becomes more fun as you improve and learn how to handle situations better, plus moving up allows you to see better play.
A word of caution: with your clinician being a retired NBA official what he told you is most likely going to come from an NBA perspective and the NBA has a different approach to the game. That means that some of what he said may not be appropriate for calling plays at the NCAA or NFHS levels.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm glad that you had a wonderful experience. The avocation becomes more fun as you improve and learn how to handle situations better, plus moving up allows you to see better play.
A word of caution: with your clinician being a retired NBA official what he told you is most likely going to come from an NBA perspective and the NBA has a different approach to the game. That means that some of what he said may not be appropriate for calling plays at the NCAA or NFHS levels.

Actually the individual he referenced is a current college and high school official and worked this past year at that level. I have been exposed to the very same person and what he teaches does apply to what we do at those levels (as I was around him during both a college and high school camp). Officiating is officiating if we stop trying to always point out the differences we think exist.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually the individual he referenced is a current college and high school official and worked this past year at that level. I have been exposed to the very same person and what he teaches does apply to what we do at those levels (as I was around him during both a college and high school camp). Officiating is officiating if we stop trying to always point out the differences we think exist.

Given the fact that this individual is a current HS and NCAA official, his comments are more likely appropriate. However, every person has different experiences and forms beliefs and standards of judgment based upon those. Since he has the experience of working the NBA game, then he is going to have some philosophy and play calling principles from that level in his mentality. It is that which may or may not be appropriate to have filter down to the NFHS and NCAA levels. Perhaps he is careful not to teach any of that to NFHS or NCAA officials, but since the poster cited a discussion of "RSBQ" and "continuation" (which are NBA terminology) that leads me to believe that there is some carry over. That makes me suspicious of his idea of "types of contact that warrant a foul" at the NFHS and NCAA levels.

I will politely disagree with your statement that "officiating is officiating" and I also don't think that "basketball is basketball." There are vast differences in my opinion.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Given the fact that this individual is a current HS and NCAA official, his comments are more likely appropriate. However, every person has different experiences and forms beliefs and standards of judgment based upon those. Since he has the experience of working the NBA game, then he is going to have some philosophy and play calling principles from that level in his mentality. It is that which may or may not be appropriate to have filter down to the NFHS and NCAA levels. Perhaps he is careful not to teach any of that to NFHS or NCAA officials, but since the poster cited a discussion of "RSBQ" and "continuation" (which are NBA terminology) that leads me to believe that there is some carry over. That makes me suspicious of his idea of "types of contact that warrant a foul" at the NFHS and NCAA levels.

I will politely disagree with your statement that "officiating is officiating" and I also don't think that "basketball is basketball." There are vast differences in my opinion.

All I am saying is that many people try to make these levels so vast that you could not recognize or be able to officiate if asked to work those levels at the same time. My point is that is not true considering that most NCAA rules and NF rules are exactly the same (contact rules are the same). My approach is exactly the same no matter what I do. And talking with this official I have realized that more of what we do at the levels I work is not that different. We just try to highlight these differences when basically what we do is the same.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Given the fact that this individual is a current HS and NCAA official, his comments are more likely appropriate. However, every person has different experiences and forms beliefs and standards of judgment based upon those. Since he has the experience of working the NBA game, then he is going to have some philosophy and play calling principles from that level in his mentality. It is that which may or may not be appropriate to have filter down to the NFHS and NCAA levels. Perhaps he is careful not to teach any of that to NFHS or NCAA officials, but since the poster cited a discussion of "RSBQ" and "continuation" (which are NBA terminology) that leads me to believe that there is some carry over. That makes me suspicious of his idea of "types of contact that warrant a foul" at the NFHS and NCAA levels.

I will politely disagree with your statement that "officiating is officiating" and I also don't think that "basketball is basketball." There are vast differences in my opinion.

RSBQ, IMO, is a most valid discussion for the HS game at the higher levels. I don't understand how one can have a discussion about RSBQ without seeing it in the context of advantage / disadvantage, which we talk about *all the time*.

And continuation? Well, I'm still convinced that too many fouls are called "on the floor" when they should be considered fouls in the act of shooting at the HS level. So maybe using that word would convince HS officials that just because the feet are on the floor doesn't mean it's not a shooting foul.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by DLH17

I had a varsity boys coach go ballistic on me over the weekend when I called a foul on one of his guys for putting hand on the ballhandler's hip and keeping it there from the 3 point line all the way to the block.

He gave me (and this was a first for me) the big "PHOOEY ON YOU" - turned head and waved hand at me.

It was awesome, I must say.

I gave a coach a T for this type of gesture last season DURING A TIMEOUT. Felt great about doing it.