Pick and Roll Rule

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Snaqwells, review your post. Do you find "over the back" to be innocuous or problematic? (You had both.) I believe it to be #1 in the problematic department. As for "illegal screen," it would be in my top ten, though barely.

And yes, I heard "timeline" recently. It surprised me, too.

Sorry, I consider it a problem, like "reaching in." It perpetuates a myth that creates problems. Let me rephrase my question, since you really didn't answer what I meant to ask.

What, exactly, is the problem you find with using the term? What myth does it perpetuate?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What, exactly, is the problem you find with using the term? What myth does it perpetuate?

The only problem I have with it is that it's an oxymoron. The only myth it perpetuates is that you can indeed screen illegally. Of course, as 4-40-1 reads, you can't. Does it create issues as much as "over the back," "reaching," and other myths? No, not even close. But, it's still there.

So, I put it out here to the test. When we debate whether something is legal/illegal/improper/whatever, we always say to go back to the book. I asked if anyone could come up with an example of an illegal screen that stays within the definition of the rule book. No-one did, yet.

I'd have no hard feelings if someone could do so, as that would be just another learning lesson. Instead, a few others displayed hard feelings from something I pointed out. That's too bad, as I expected something more rational here.

If it isn't worth the discussion, then I don't see the point in responding.

[Adam]

My point is you may well be right, by rule, but the "myth" you're concerned about isn't a problem. I've never had a coach above the YMCA level ask for a foul call on a moving screen when there isn't contact, so this myth isn't a problem. The benefits of using the phrase outweigh any semantic issues some may have with it. The fact is, the player is attempting to screen, and if he doesn't do it legally it's an illegal screen.

I'm done.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

My point is you may well be right, by rule, but the "myth" you're concerned about isn't a problem. I've never had a coach above the YMCA level ask for a foul call on a moving screen when there isn't contact, so this myth isn't a problem. The benefits of using the phrase outweigh any semantic issues some may have with it. The fact is, the player is attempting to screen, and if he doesn't do it legally it's an illegal screen.

I'm done.

Man, I need to come out and work where you do!! I have heard that several times at higher levels. And NO I do not want to get into the perpetuating a myth debate. It would take away witty comebacks I have when I am in the bleechers heckling fans "It is legal to reach in you know. It is that whole holding part that is illegal". I've gotten some priceless looks from that one. Or "Hey they are over the back" "Yes they actually were over the back, good thing they were not on the back b/c then it would probably be a push and there would have been a foul". Just one of the perverse joys I get on rare occasions!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Instead, a few others displayed hard feelings from something I pointed out. That's too bad, as I expected something more rational here.

If it isn't worth the discussion, then I don't see the point in responding.

I hope you're not talking about me because it sureasheck NOT hard feelings on my part. It's simply reality. The useage of the term "illegal screen" is common and understood. You are the ONLY person that I have ever met or heard of that has a problem with it. And that takes in a lot of "persons" over the year. And that's why it isn't worth the very lengthy discussion that we've had about it so far imo. And that's why I'm done discussing it. If others want to indulge you, hey, y'all knock yourselves out.