kick 'im while he's down

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Snaqs, if saw a player kick another player who was laying on the court out by the center line while a shot was in the air, would you really consider calling that as being your plain ol' common foul?

But consider this:
1. B1 dives for a loose ball near center court and doesn't get it.
2. The ball squirts towards B's basket.
3. A1 picks it up and heads back towards his basket, which takes him past B1 who has not yet stood up.
4. A1 runs towards B1 and just as B1 begins his attempt to rise, A1's foot clips B1 on the head.
5. The force of the contact knocks B1 flat to the floor.

Watchagot?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But consider this:
1. B1 dives for a loose ball near center court and doesn't get it.
2. The ball squirts towards B's basket.
3. A1 picks it up and heads back towards his basket, which takes him past B1 who has not yet stood up.
4. A1 runs towards B1 and just as B1 begins his attempt to rise, A1's foot clips B1 on the head.
5. The force of the contact knocks B1 flat to the floor.

Watchagot?

A splitting headache.

[rsl]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Yeah, but in this case it really is incidental, isn't it? How is the guy on the floor put at a disadvantage?

I think the mental disadvantage can be a factor. I've seen plenty of times when players use contact to get the opponent upset and throw off their game. I don't think the advantage/disadvantage has to be on the immediate play. If I don't make a call, then the player gets up and retaliates, and I call the second one- doesn't the original perpetrator get an advantage?

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Adult Wreck Leagues. There is really no good reason to do these games.... And you end up with 'help me' posts on the forum.

This play actually happened back in March. I only posted it now because I was sick of the "I'm 52 years old, and in all my years..." thread. I hope it worked!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rsl

If I don't make a call, then the player gets up and retaliates, and I call the second one- doesn't the original perpetrator get an advantage?

If we're still talking about the OP: The contact is inadvertent. This is a given.
So if it is inadvertent, and no advantage is gained, it is not a foul. Period.

Having stated all this, if the player gets up and retaliates, the content of the retaliation must be judged on its own merit as to whether a call is to be made or not. But the original play is over and should not factor into this call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But consider this:
1. B1 dives for a loose ball near center court and doesn't get it.
2. The ball squirts towards B's basket.
3. A1 picks it up and heads back towards his basket, which takes him past B1 who has not yet stood up.
4. A1 runs towards B1 and just as B1 begins his attempt to rise, A1's foot clips B1 on the head.
5. The force of the contact knocks B1 flat to the floor.

Watchagot?

I gots a judgment to make.

The judgment is between no call if I decide the foot contact was incidental contact that didn't disadvantage B1, or a personal foul of some kind(PC, intentional or flagrant), dependant on reading intent of A1 and severity of contact.

Note though that this play is completely different than what we've been discussing. In the OP and other plays discussed, the player on the floor has been nowhere near the ball/play when the contact on him occurred. Thus, a different calling philosophy has to be employed imo.