Did I kick this

[fonzzy07]

Hey had this today and I think I may have been wrong.
1 second left in the game. team A is leading by 2. Team A is to imbound. As A1 releases the ball B1 stays is his plane does not cross the out of bounds line and bats the ball right back to A1 who is out of bounds whistle out of A1. HERE is the problem. I am trail and watching clock, I hear Whistle then Horn clearly. I am the R and call the U over to talk. I ask was the player over the line. He says no. then we talk about putting time on. He had no idea either so I applied the idea that the game is not over when the clock hits 0 but when the horn sounds. So since we can not put 10ths of seconds on this clock I instruct the clock to put 1 second left on the clock. Now another clicker. I saw 1 on the clock when the whislte blew so I had definate knowledge and when the A coach called timeout and that is how i explained it too im needless to say he was mad. I question myself because it seems like some time had to have run off for this play. Game ended up A winning but did i apply the correct rule.
From my little research here is what I have found, please help me learn tho.
For my choice 5-8-1 Against my choice 5-6 exception 1 ( this was not a violation tho so I do not think this applys)
Thank you and sorry for the long post.

[Adam]

If you saw one second on the clock when the whistle blew; put it back on.

[Nevadaref]

If you saw one second on the clock after hearing the whistle, then 1 second is the correct time to put back due the rule change this season removing lag time.

If you didn't see the clock, then the quarter ends with the violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

- 1 second left in the game.
- Team A is to inbound.
- As A1 releases the ball B1 stays is his plane does not cross the out of bounds line and bats the ball right back to A1 who is out of bounds whistle out of A1.
- I am trail and watching clock, I hear Whistle then Horn clearly.

If I'm reading this right, A1 made a legal throw-in. B1 legally touched the throw-in in bounds. B1 then bats the ball and it hits A1 who is still OOB, causing a violation by A1. Iow, B1 should now get the ball for the throw-in because of the violation.

When B1 touched the throw-in inbounds, the clock was supposed to start as per rule 5-9-4. When A1 was subsequently touched OOB by the ball, the clock was supposed to be stopped, as per rule 5-8-1(c). Well......I'd kinda think that starting and then stopping the clock would take a second if the timer has normal reflexes. Iow, there had to be some time used up on this play. And....the clock must have started because the horn went off.

Which means that I'll leave you folks to figger out what to do because I gotta go water the dogs.

[fonzzy07]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If I'm reading this right, A1 made a legal throw-in. B1 legally touched the throw-in in bounds. B1 then bats the ball and it hits A1 who is still OOB, causing a violation by A1. Iow, B1 should now get the ball for the throw-in because of the violation.

When B1 touched the throw-in inbounds, the clock was supposed to start as per rule 5-9-4. When A1 was subsequently touched OOB by the ball, the clock was supposed to be stopped, as per rule 5-8-1(c). Well......I'd kinda think that starting and then stopping the clock would take a second if the timer has normal reflexes. Iow, there had to be some time used up on this play. And....the clock must have started because the horn went off.

Which means that I'll leave you folks to figger out what to do because I gotta go water the dogs.

Thank you, this just summed up my problem. It seemed like some time should have run off. I guess the clock guy messed up, but still i had to go with what I saw on the clock didnt I?

Come on Jurassic, don't bail on us now. You're the rules guy.
"Do you have a rule to support putting that one second back on the clock??"

I'd say, game over, go home.

[26 Year Gap]

I've got 'game over'. Definite knowledge of the time ceased as the ball was touched. But why were you watching the inbounder if you were not administering the throw in?

He wasn't watching the inbounder...

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

I am trail and watching clock,

[fonzzy07]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I've got 'game over'. Definite knowledge of the time ceased as the ball was touched. But why were you watching the inbounder if you were not administering the throw in?

Was not I was watching the clock. I only know the details with the throw in because of the conversation I had with my partner right after the incident. I only saw the clock at 1 when the whistle blew. I also heard the horn right after the whistle tho.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

Hey had this today and I think I may have been wrong.
1 second left in the game. team A is leading by 2. Team A is to imbound. As A1 releases the ball B1 stays is his plane does not cross the out of bounds line and bats the ball right back to A1 who is out of bounds whistle out of A1. HERE is the problem. I am trail and watching clock, I hear Whistle then Horn clearly. I am the R and call the U over to talk. I ask was the player over the line. He says no. then we talk about putting time on. He had no idea either so I applied the idea that the game is not over when the clock hits 0 but when the horn sounds. So since we can not put 10ths of seconds on this clock I instruct the clock to put 1 second left on the clock. Now another clicker. I saw 1 on the clock when the whislte blew so I had definate knowledge and when the A coach called timeout and that is how i explained it too im needless to say he was mad. I question myself because it seems like some time had to have run off for this play. Game ended up A winning but did i apply the correct rule.
From my little research here is what I have found, please help me learn tho.
For my choice 5-8-1 Against my choice 5-6 exception 1 ( this was not a violation tho so I do not think this applys)
Thank you and sorry for the long post.

Okay, I am confused. If the inbound was taking place with 1 second left and then you are watching the clock and hear the whistle with 1 second left, and you ask a question about breaking the plane. Was it a spot throw-in with the clock stopped at 1 second? Did you see the play which prompted you to ask the question about breaking the plane?

I know that those quick deflections OOB on a throw-in make it tough to chop time, then whistle to stop the clock. I still have game over if the ball was touched inbounds. Did your partner just explain the whole play to you? It just seemed to me from your whole explanation that you witnessed the play. I apologize if I mis-interpreted.

[Dan_ref]

I guess I don't understand what the clock was like.

Did it have tenths of seconds? If not then if your partner (not you) thinks less than 1 second elapsed from inbounds touch to OOB then put 1 second back up.

If it had tenths of seconds then your partner (not you) needs to know how much time elapsed and subtract that from 1 second.

In either case if it was more than 1 second in your partner's judgement then the game is ovah.

It has to be your partner's decision because you admitted you were looking at the clock and not the play.

[Ref Daddy]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I've got 'game over'. Definite knowledge of the time ceased as the ball was touched. But why were you watching the inbounder if you were not administering the throw in?

You felt there was some time left - but as I read the POI and rules change this year you need DEFINITE knowledge - and that seems related to observing it on the clock.

Game over here.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Ref Daddy

You felt there was some time left - but as I read the POI and rules change this year you need DEFINITE knowledge - and that seems related to observing it on the clock.

Game over here.

He has definate knowledge. He looked at the clock when the whistled sounded and it had 1 second on it. That is definate knowledge that the violation occured with 1 second left. Put 1 second back on the clock.

[Kelvin green]

The problem with a clock with no tenths is that there could have been almost 2 seconds on the clock (1-1.9).

What you also dont know was if the timer started the clock started on the touch or not...

Ask the timer (they are an official) at what point they started the clock... You can use that to determine if the clock started late --- If it did not start correctly you have to rectify that as well.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

He has definate knowledge. He looked at the clock when the whistled sounded and it had 1 second on it. That is definate knowledge that the violation occured with 1 second left. Put 1 second back on the clock.

Say what? Where is the "definite knowledge"?

The clock should have started when the ball touched B1 on the court. The clock is now supposed to run until the violation occurs when the ball touches A1 OOB? Are you saying that complete sequence actually took zero time?

This play is a failure of the timer to start the clock properly....maybe. I really can't tell because if the horn sounded, maybe the timer did start the clock OK. Nobody's reaction time, including any timer's, is instantaneous.

Aren't you supposed to have definite knowledge of how much time elapsed before you can put time back on the clock? As in case book play 5.10.2? In that case play, the R had definite knowledge of how much time should have elapsed. That's why he can adjust the clock. In the play being discussed though, I can't see where any official has definite knowledge of how much time actually elapsed between the legal touching on-court by B1(clock should start) and the violation by A1(clock should be stopped). And if you don't have definite knowledge of how much time elapsed, you can't correct anything. And...if the horn went, the period is over.