Tim Donaghy interview

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jbduke

Tim Donaghy's voice carries some weight, whether we like it or not. That's why you should care.

Carries weight with whom (Or is that who? )?

And no, we should not care and we have the right to dismiss his point of view. For one he is a convicted felon that was not accused of extending series, he was accused of giving inside information on betting information and making money off that information. Sorry, he might have been in the league, but he is still a liar and I would take his response with a grain of salt. And I have a feeling that Dan Patrick did not really challenge his perspective on this. Considering that many of the series have been one sided this year and other years. The NBA Finals last year was basically a sweep too.

Peace

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Carries weight with whom (Or is that who? )?

And no, we should not care and we have the right to dismiss his point of view. For one he is a convicted felon that was not accused of extending series, he was accused of giving inside information on betting information and making money off that information. Sorry, he might have been in the league, but he is still a liar and I would take his response with a grain of salt. And I have a feeling that Dan Patrick did not really challenge his perspective on this. Considering that many of the series have been one sided this year and other years. The NBA Finals last year was basically a sweep too.

Peace

1) No one is questioning your "right to dismiss his point of view." I didn't write about, nor do I care about rights in this case. I care about shoulds.

2) "Carries weight with whom...?"

It carries weight with all of the conspiracy theorists out there who lap up any and every piece of information that would "confirm" their suspicions about how big-money sport works in this country. You and some others seem to be of the opinion that if you find an idea to be nonsensical, then it's completely meaningless and unworthy of your attention. But I don't think it's silly to pay attention when someone with a big microphone slanders me or a group with which I identify.

[BktBallRef]

You are correct, Dookie. If something is nonsensical to me, then it's completely meaningless and unworthy of my attention. I couldn't givea$hit what Donaghy says, which is why I didn't even click on the link provided.

Do you listen to every liberal or conservative nut job who calls into a radio talk show? Based on your post above, you have to.

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You are correct, Dookie. If something is nonsensical to me, then it's completely meaningless and unworthy of my attention. I couldn't givea$hit what Donaghy says, which is why I didn't even click on the link provided.

Do you listen to every liberal or conservative nut job who calls into a radio talk show? Based on your post above, you have to.

Wow. Recognizing differences across situations really isn't your strong suit, is it, Hole?

If you can't see the difference between the influence of a former NBA referee who has published a book and has easy access to print media and radio, and that of some random wingnut caller to AM political radio whom no one ever recognized as an authority, then I'm pretty much outta bullets. But since I'm the one claiming to care, I guess I can't give up quite yet.

If you don't want to care, that's fine. And if you don't want to believe that Donaghy's words could have downstream impacts on you, that's your prerogative, too, and we can probably just agree to disagree (amiably).

There are very definite holes in Donaghy's arguments, several of which have been pointed out quite nicely in this thread. Presumably, not everyone is going to see every last one of the flaws, so discussing them with a group of people who have special insight seems like a worthwhile enterprise.

There are those in the non-officiating community who are going to buy everything Donaghy says whole-hog. Obviously there's no changing those minds. But there are also many out there who are truly undecided as to what they think about his stories. Those are the people we have the power to persuade. And we can do that more easily if we're armed with a thorough understanding of what Donaghy and his adherents are saying.

Maybe the whole thing's just not that big a deal to you. And if that's the case, godspeed on your mission not to give a $hit. But it happens to be important to me and, I suspect, many other officials. And sticking our heads in the sand while this guy is spewing garbage, impugning the integrity of officials everywhere, is not going to make his ideas disappear.

History is littered with stories of good people who suffered because they thought that the ridiculous ideas of others weren't worthy of attention. This situation isn't significant in the grand scheme of history, but the lesson is still relevant.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jbduke

But it happens to be important to me and, I suspect, many other officials. And sticking our heads in the sand while this guy is spewing garbage, impugning the integrity of officials everywhere, is not going to make his ideas disappear.

Yabut.....

Is Donaghy really impugning all officials or just the NBA officiating staff? And is Donaghy impugning the NBA officiating staff or is he impuging the direction that the NBA officiating staff is being given? Or is it a combination of both?

Does all of that really affect any of us? Or does it affect NBA officials only?

Note that I sureashell don't have the answer to any of those questions, and I'm not sure if anyone does.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jbduke

Wow. Recognizing differences across situations really isn't your strong suit, is it, Hole?

If you can't see the difference between the influence of a former NBA referee who has published a book and has easy access to print media and radio, and that of some random wingnut caller to AM political radio whom no one ever recognized as an authority, then I'm pretty much outta bullets. But since I'm the one claiming to care, I guess I can't give up quite yet.

If you don't want to care, that's fine. And if you don't want to believe that Donaghy's words could have downstream impacts on you, that's your prerogative, too, and we can probably just agree to disagree (amiably).

There are very definite holes in Donaghy's arguments, several of which have been pointed out quite nicely in this thread. Presumably, not everyone is going to see every last one of the flaws, so discussing them with a group of people who have special insight seems like a worthwhile enterprise.

There are those in the non-officiating community who are going to buy everything Donaghy says whole-hog. Obviously there's no changing those minds. But there are also many out there who are truly undecided as to what they think about his stories. Those are the people we have the power to persuade. And we can do that more easily if we're armed with a thorough understanding of what Donaghy and his adherents are saying.

Maybe the whole thing's just not that big a deal to you. And if that's the case, godspeed on your mission not to give a $hit. But it happens to be important to me and, I suspect, many other officials. And sticking our heads in the sand while this guy is spewing garbage, impugning the integrity of officials everywhere, is not going to make his ideas disappear.

History is littered with stories of good people who suffered because they thought that the ridiculous ideas of others weren't worthy of attention. This situation isn't significant in the grand scheme of history, but the lesson is still relevant.

So because someone does not agree with you they are sticking their heads in the sand?

Also I do not care that much because I do not spend my time worrying about the NBA. What Donaghy says does not change my life one bit. Just like what Joe West does or does not do in MLB does no change what I do as a baseball umpire.

And we must keep in mind that Donaghy went from making a near $300,000 salary to a half a million dollar house to now having to sell a book to make any money. He probably would not even be allowed to work a high school game at this point for any money. I think he has incentive to talk about the NBA as he can flip this situation into speaking tours and other books so that he will become the so-called expert on NBA corruption. If you want to believe him, go right ahead. I guess you are sticking your head in the sand about the reality of what Donaghy claims he knows.

For the record, I went to an NCAA meeting where an FBI agent spoke about the Donaghy situation as he worked with someone of the people that had incite on the case the government had on Donaghy. The room was full of NCAA D1 Officials and they did not give a damn. They were bored by the topic and thought the issue went on too long. I guess they were wrong for their opinions because you say so.

Peace

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So because someone does not agree with you they are sticking their heads in the sand?

Also I do not care that much because I do not spend my time worrying about the NBA. What Donaghy says does not change my life one bit. Just like what Joe West does or does not do in MLB does no change what I do as a baseball umpire.

And we must keep in mind that Donaghy went from making a near $300,000 salary to a half a million dollar house to now having to sell a book to make any money. He probably would not even be allowed to work a high school game at this point for any money. I think he has incentive to talk about the NBA as he can flip this situation into speaking tours and other books so that he will become the so-called expert on NBA corruption. If you want to believe him, go right ahead. I guess you are sticking your head in the sand about the reality of what Donaghy claims he knows.

For the record, I went to an NCAA meeting where an FBI agent spoke about the Donaghy situation as he worked with someone of the people that had incite on the case the government had on Donaghy. The room was full of NCAA D1 Officials and they did not give a damn. They were bored by the topic and thought the issue went on too long. I guess they were wrong for their opinions because you say so.

Peace

I'm guessing that the irony in your post is completely unintended. Thanks for sharing that this has, in fact, affected you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jbduke

I'm guessing that the irony in your post is completely unintended. Thanks for sharing that this has, in fact, affected you.

How did it affect me? My career has not changed one bit because of this fool. You must not know what really affects people's lives.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by jbduke

There are those in the non-officiating community who are going to buy everything Donaghy says whole-hog. Obviously there's no changing those minds. But there are also many out there who are truly undecided as to what they think about his stories. Those are the people we have the power to persuade. And we can do that more easily if we're armed with a thorough understanding of what Donaghy and his adherents are saying.

Maybe the whole thing's just not that big a deal to you. And if that's the case, godspeed on your mission not to give a $hit. But it happens to be important to me and, I suspect, many other officials. And sticking our heads in the sand while this guy is spewing garbage, impugning the integrity of officials everywhere, is not going to make his ideas disappear.

Evidently not. So far, it looks like everyone in this thread but you is "sticking our heads in the sand." I think that says a lot. There's not a thing you, me, or anyone else here can do about what this convicted felon, liar, and cheat is doing or saying. So I'm certainly not going to validate his claims be reading them, much less listening to him or arguing his points. What he does has zero effect on me.

BTW, if you think Joe Blow is rushing out to buy either of Donaghy's book, you're sadly mistaken. The only time anyone is paying attention to this guy is when his publisher gets some media or radio guy to interview, just to promote his book.

Can I ignore him? Damn right I can.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Evidently not. So far, it looks like everyone in this thread but you is "sticking our heads in the sand." I think that says a lot. There's not a thing you, me, or anyone else here can do about what this convicted felon, liar, and cheat is doing or saying. So I'm certainly not going to validate his claims be reading them, much less listening to him or arguing his points. What he does has zero effect on me.

BTW, if you think Joe Blow is rushing out to buy either of Donaghy's book, you're sadly mistaken. The only time anyone is paying attention to this guy is when his publisher gets some media or radio guy to interview, just to promote his book.

Can I ignore him? Damn right I can.

I think jbduke actually has made a valid point. We, as officials, are far more than likely to feel as you and many other posters in this do. But I have to agree that it is very likely that non-officials will not feel so strongly against him....and may even believe a lot of what he has to say.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think jbduke actually has made a valid point. We, as officials, are far more than likely to feel as you and many other posters in this do. But I have to agree that it is very likely that non-officials will not feel so strongly against him....and may even believe a lot of what he has to say.

But they did not need this person to feel the way they do. Just like you do not need real facts to have people form their political opinions. Then someone on talk radio can expound on a thought and many folks will buy it hook, line and sinker.

Peace

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Evidently not. So far, it looks like everyone in this thread but you is "sticking our heads in the sand." I think that says a lot. There's not a thing you, me, or anyone else here can do about what this convicted felon, liar, and cheat is doing or saying.

I think that letters-to-the-editor, emails, phone calls, and casual conversation with friends, can (still) effect change. You seem to disagree. Good to know that inertia is still such a powerful force for good.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So I'm certainly not going to validate his claims be reading them, much less listening to him or arguing his points..

I'm sorry, I must have been absent the day the teacher taught everyone else that "reading or listening to something = validating that something." Actually, I'm not sorry. That was a bad day for the teacher.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

What he does has zero effect on me.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

BTW, if you think Joe Blow is rushing out to buy either of Donaghy's book, you're sadly mistaken.

"Rushing out." Nice pull.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The only time anyone is paying attention to this guy is when his publisher gets some media or radio guy to interview, just to promote his book..

And the only time anyone pays attention to Rush Limbaugh or Rachel Maddow is when he or she is on radio or television. In other words, I have no idea what your point is.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Can I ignore him? Damn right I can.

I feel so silly. This whole time I was attempting to convince you that you are absolutely and completely (physically and otherwise) INCAPABLE of ignoring Tim Donaghy or his claims. But you have shown me the light. And the light is, "Nuh-unh." Thank you for that.

So, for those scoring at home: that's one distortion, one non sequitor, a bad premise that I'm struggling to categorize, one you're-not-the-boss-of-me, and two substantive points of disagreement.

Nice post.

[BktBallRef]

dookie, you can be as much of a smartass as you like, I really couldn't care less.

Again, I don't givea$hit what Tim Donaghy writes or says. He has zero credibilty with me, even less than you do...but not by much. Sorry that gets under your skin.

Now, feel free to make more of your little sarcastic, juvenile remarks. I'm done.

[Judtech]

I'm not saying he is right, and I am not saying he is wrong. I see a lot of similarities to Jose however. Canseco was derided in his claims b/c he was: broke, had an axe to grind, in debt, bitter about not being in MLB, still looking for the limelight. Also, he had several run ins with the law. They both have written books and the people they have accused of wrongdoing have denied said wrongdoin We too had an NBA official in our association. He was great at giving back and a great guy with a big heart to help officials get better. I have heard TD mention his name from time to time, so I have an emotional stake in hoping that his claims are not true.
While as officials we are not supposed to cheer for one team or another, I am fervently hoping that TD's claims can be proven patently false. The only thing that concerns me, and I haven't really cared enough to look, is not a series being extended but what point spreads are and are not being covered. Those claims, IMO, have more potential to be dangerous.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I'm not saying he is right, and I am not saying he is wrong. I see a lot of similarities to Jose however. Canseco was derided in his claims b/c he was: broke, had an axe to grind, in debt, bitter about not being in MLB, still looking for the limelight. Also, he had several run ins with the law. They both have written books and the people they have accused of wrongdoing have denied said wrongdoin We too had an NBA official in our association. He was great at giving back and a great guy with a big heart to help officials get better. I have heard TD mention his name from time to time, so I have an emotional stake in hoping that his claims are not true.
While as officials we are not supposed to cheer for one team or another, I am fervently hoping that TD's claims can be proven patently false. The only thing that concerns me, and I haven't really cared enough to look, is not a series being extended but what point spreads are and are not being covered. Those claims, IMO, have more potential to be dangerous.

Canseco had more credibility at the time his first book came out that Donaghy has or will ever have again. Canseco was making claims which most people already suspected anyway, and which had corraborating witnesses.

Donaghy's claims are his and his alone (I don't count conspiracy theorists), and he has no evidence to back it up.

Canseco made claims that were, in and of themselves, credible. Donaghy is making claims that, when scrutinized, seem highly improbable. The number of people who would have to be "in the know" of such a conspiracy (NBA refs purposefully prolonging playoff series) is so high as to make the conspiracy itself nearly impossible.

That difference alone makes the comparison inapt.