Why call traveling? It's the NBE.

[Nevadaref]

Next time SC airs take a look at the highlight clip of Rondo diving on the floor for a loose ball, recovering it, getting up, and then starting a dribble and scoring.

I'm no expert on the NBA rules, so I did some checking and couldn't find anything in them stating that this play is illegal. Apparently, one can stand up with the ball in the NBE.

If that's true, then the rules for this league are even more of a joke than I thought. If it's not true, then this play wasn't called correctly.

[just another ref]

He was not holding the ball when he stood up. Ball was on the floor with the hand on top.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

He was not holding the ball when he stood up. Ball was on the floor with the hand on top.

So is a player allowed to pin the ball to the floor, stand up, then bring the ball up?

Or is a player allowed to set the ball on the floor next to him, stand up, and then pick up the ball?

[APG]

That is NOT a travel using the NBA rule set.

Video Rule Book - Home

[Jurassic Referee]

I just looked in the NBA rulebook and couldn't find a citation. Must be in the casebook.

A very noticeable NBA no-call though.....

Watch the players outside the 3-point line on a free throw. By rule(I looked it up), they have to stay behind the line until the ball leaves the FT shooter' s hands. In practice, on almost every FT someone out there is coming in early and getting away with it every time. In their last series, the l'il guard from Orlando(I think) got a key rebound and put-back late in a game when he was 4' over the line before the ball left. In the game last night there was a coupla times that players were way over the line early. That one just never seems to be called, and it's obvious as hell.

EDit: shown on the link supplied above by AllPurposeGamer. It ain't being called!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

That is NOT a travel using the NBA rule set.

Video Rule Book - Home

Thanks for the link. I'm now 100% certain that the NBE rules are a joke. All that they are designed to do is favor the offense and ensure a high-scoring game in the hopes of selling tickets, garnering TV viewership, and increasing revenues.
It's not competitive basketball. It's an entertainment show.

Date Updated:

10/15/2009
Title:

Legal Play, Offensive Player with the ball gets up off the floor
Commentary:

This is an example of LEGAL play by an offensive player in possession of the ball. When in possession of the ball while on the floor, an offensive player is permitted to stand up, establish a pivot foot and resume play. Here, the offensive player loses the ball and then regains possession after going to the floor. He then regains his feet, establishes his pivot and resumes play. This is a legal play.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Next time SC airs take a look at the highlight clip of Rondo diving on the floor for a loose ball, recovering it, getting up, and then starting a dribble and scoring.

I'm no expert on the NBA rules, so I did some checking and couldn't find anything in them stating that this play is illegal. Apparently, one can stand up with the ball in the NBE.

If that's true, then the rules for this league are even more of a joke than I thought. If it's not true, then this play wasn't called correctly.

My 16 yr old came bounding down the stairs yesterday after this play......"Dad. did you see that?"

Me, "Son, the rules in the NBA are different than your HS rules. Don't try to compare the two.""

My son, "Really? What a joke."

And hence why our jobs are even more difficult as more and more folks see plays this and think it's ok at their level.......

[JRutledge]

Unless I am missing something at the other codes, this would be legal in all of basketball not just the NBA. Rondo was not holding the ball independently of it touching the floor. Maybe it is a loophole in the rule, but I do not see anything that says this is illegal for a player to do this at all.

And let say this is illegal at our levels and the NBA says this is legal? So what? It is the pros; there are a lot of pro things legal that are not legal in the college and high school ranks. Baseball has many rules like that as an example. You might not like their rules, but that does not make them a joke when the rules promote offense. In the NFL a passer can throw the ball away to save a loss of yardage as long as the ball crosses the line of scrimmage (even out of bounds). You cannot do that in NF Football rules and this rule is to benefit the offense. Why would anyone be surprised that the NBA might have a rule that does the same?

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless I am missing something at the other codes, this would be legal in all of basketball not just the NBA. Rondo was not holding the ball independently of it touching the floor. Maybe it is a loophole in the rule, but I do not see anything that says this is illegal for a player to do this at all.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)


Now we can discuss whether Rondo had gained control of the ball.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So is a player allowed to pin the ball to the floor, stand up, then bring the ball up?

Why not?

Or is a player allowed to set the ball on the floor next to him, stand up, and then pick up the ball?

This is clearly not what happened.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)


Now we can discuss whether Rondo had gained control of the ball.

A player is in control while holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Rondo did neither.

[Nevadaref]

The NCAA book says the same thing as the NFHS on this point.

A.R. 117. Is it traveling when a player:
(1) Falls to the playing court while holding the ball without
maintaining a pivot foot; or
(2) Falls to the playing court on both knees while holding the
ball without maintaining a pivot foot; or
(3) Gains control of the ball while on the playing court and
then, because of momentum, rolls or slides, after which the
player passes or starts a dribble before getting to his or her feet?
RULING: (1) and (2) Yes, when the pivot foot is not maintained because
it is virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot when falling to the
playing floor.
(3) No. The player may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a timeout. Once
the player has the ball and is no longer sliding, he or she may not roll over.
When flat on his or her back, the player may sit up without violating.
When the player puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is the first to
touch the ball, it also is traveling. When a player rises to his or her feet
while holding the ball, it is traveling. When a player falls to one knee
while holding the ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves.
(Rule 4-70.6 and 4-70.1)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So is a player allowed to pin the ball to the floor, stand up, then bring the ball up?

Originally Posted by just another ref

Why not?

Originally Posted by just another ref

A player is in control while holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Rondo did neither.

Are you sure?

DRIBBLE – LEGAL AND ILLEGAL MOVEMENT
4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player
is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds
from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass
away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control
under these conditions. It is a dribble when a player stands still and bounces the
ball. It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches
it to the floor once or more than once.

Granted he wasn't standing, but was Rondo holding the ball while touching it to the floor?

We know that doesn't constitute a dribble, so if the official deems him to be holding the ball, then getting up would be illegal.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Are you sure?

DRIBBLE – LEGAL AND ILLEGAL MOVEMENT
4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player
is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds
from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass
away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control
under these conditions. It is a dribble when a player stands still and bounces the
ball. It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches
it to the floor once or more than once.


Granted he wasn't standing, but was Rondo holding the ball while touching it to the floor?

We know that doesn't constitute a dribble, so if the official deems him to be holding the ball, then getting up would be illegal.

Rondo did not "touch the ball to the floor." It was already touching the floor.
In my view, he was not holding the ball.

[Adam]

Wow, when I saw the replay last night, my first comment was that he traveled. It was obvious. Then I thought I remembered that the NBA rule was different on this particular play.

I still say, by NFHS rules, it was a travel. He held it, put it on the floor, stood up, tweet.

The ones arguing against a travel seem to suggest that if he'd taken his hand off the ball when he put it on the floor, it would have been a travel. IOW, if he'd relinquished a bit of physical control, it would have been illegal. The flip side is, by maintaining a hold on the ball and pinning it against the floor, he has found a loophole. I highly doubt that's the intent of the rule.

Question for those who think pinning the ball to the floor is not holding it: A1 dives for a loose ball, pinning it to the floor with one arm. B2 comes in and simultaneously pins it to the floor with one arm. Do you have a held ball here?

Nevada also clearly points out the rule that says pinning it to the floor is not a dribble and thus a player would be called for traveling if he pins it and proceeds to move his pivot foot outside of the prescribed limits.