Why call traveling? It's the NBE.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless I am missing something at the other codes, this would be legal in all of basketball not just the NBA. Rondo was not holding the ball independently of it touching the floor. Maybe it is a loophole in the rule, but I do not see anything that says this is illegal for a player to do this at all.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)


Now we can discuss whether Rondo had gained control of the ball.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)


Now we can discuss whether Rondo had gained control of the ball.

A player is in control while holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Rondo did neither.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So is a player allowed to pin the ball to the floor, stand up, then bring the ball up?

Originally Posted by just another ref

Why not?

Originally Posted by just another ref

A player is in control while holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Rondo did neither.

Are you sure?

DRIBBLE – LEGAL AND ILLEGAL MOVEMENT
4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player
is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds
from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass
away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control
under these conditions. It is a dribble when a player stands still and bounces the
ball. It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches
it to the floor once or more than once.

Granted he wasn't standing, but was Rondo holding the ball while touching it to the floor?

We know that doesn't constitute a dribble, so if the official deems him to be holding the ball, then getting up would be illegal.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Are you sure?

DRIBBLE – LEGAL AND ILLEGAL MOVEMENT
4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player
is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds
from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass
away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control
under these conditions. It is a dribble when a player stands still and bounces the
ball. It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches
it to the floor once or more than once.


Granted he wasn't standing, but was Rondo holding the ball while touching it to the floor?

We know that doesn't constitute a dribble, so if the official deems him to be holding the ball, then getting up would be illegal.

Rondo did not "touch the ball to the floor." It was already touching the floor.
In my view, he was not holding the ball.

[Adam]

Wow, when I saw the replay last night, my first comment was that he traveled. It was obvious. Then I thought I remembered that the NBA rule was different on this particular play.

I still say, by NFHS rules, it was a travel. He held it, put it on the floor, stood up, tweet.

The ones arguing against a travel seem to suggest that if he'd taken his hand off the ball when he put it on the floor, it would have been a travel. IOW, if he'd relinquished a bit of physical control, it would have been illegal. The flip side is, by maintaining a hold on the ball and pinning it against the floor, he has found a loophole. I highly doubt that's the intent of the rule.

Question for those who think pinning the ball to the floor is not holding it: A1 dives for a loose ball, pinning it to the floor with one arm. B2 comes in and simultaneously pins it to the floor with one arm. Do you have a held ball here?

Nevada also clearly points out the rule that says pinning it to the floor is not a dribble and thus a player would be called for traveling if he pins it and proceeds to move his pivot foot outside of the prescribed limits.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Question for those who think pinning the ball to the floor is not holding it: A1 dives for a loose ball, pinning it to the floor with one arm. B2 comes in and simultaneously pins it to the floor with one arm. Do you have a held ball here?

It is not necessary for a player to be holding the ball in order to have a held ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is not necessary for a player to be holding the ball in order to have a held ball.

Good point, just re-read the def of held ball.
The rest of my post still stands. Are you suggesting that the rules committee wants the player to be able to stand while pinning it to the floor but not while releasing it ?

This seems to be to be the epitome of "advantage not intended by the rules."

Pinning it either has to be holding it or setting it on the floor. Either way, by rule, it's illegal (in this context).

[grunewar]

Got a call tonight from my nephew......"Hey, Uncle Rob, did you see the play in the Celtic's vs the Magic Game where Rondo dove for the ball and got up? That's a walk right? They missed it didn't they?"

"Ya see, the Pros, College and HS have different rules......." and so it goes......

[Nevadaref]

The NCAA book says the same thing as the NFHS on this point.

A.R. 117. Is it traveling when a player:
(1) Falls to the playing court while holding the ball without
maintaining a pivot foot; or
(2) Falls to the playing court on both knees while holding the
ball without maintaining a pivot foot; or
(3) Gains control of the ball while on the playing court and
then, because of momentum, rolls or slides, after which the
player passes or starts a dribble before getting to his or her feet?
RULING: (1) and (2) Yes, when the pivot foot is not maintained because
it is virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot when falling to the
playing floor.
(3) No. The player may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a timeout. Once
the player has the ball and is no longer sliding, he or she may not roll over.
When flat on his or her back, the player may sit up without violating.
When the player puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is the first to
touch the ball, it also is traveling. When a player rises to his or her feet
while holding the ball, it is traveling. When a player falls to one knee
while holding the ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves.
(Rule 4-70.6 and 4-70.1)