Two for the newbies, or anyone else

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

With a few seconds left, A1 inbounds to A2 who throws the ball toward the basket from behind the division line. The shot is short and as it comes down, A3 and B1 jump for it. The ball deflects off A3's hand into the air, the horn sounds ending the game and then the ball goes in the basket. Are points awarded to team A?

Let's make this easier.

A) The ball is tapped and directed by A3 into the air toward the basket ...

B) The ball deflects off A3's head into the air ...

C) The ball deflects off B1's hand into the air ...

I've got: A) Count the goal. B) and C) Do not count the goal.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

A1 shoots a three. While the ball is in the air, B1 fouls A2. The shot then goes in. Team A is in the bonus. What should happen? What, if anything, would be different if A1 was fouled on the shot prior to B1 fouling A2 but everything else was the same?

Nice twist.

Isn't this listed as a 6-7-Exception where the ball doesn't become dead because A1 is in the act of shooting?

The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne
shooter returns to the floor, when:
c. Article 7 occurs by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is
in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire before
the ball was in flight. The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball
comes to rest in the player’s hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and
is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm,
foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Let's make this easier.

A) The ball is tapped and directed by A3 into the air toward the basket ...

B) The ball deflects off A3's head into the air ...

C) The ball deflects off B1's hand into the air ...

I've got: A) Count the goal. B) and C) Do not count the goal.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think this is the gist of what the "controversy" was a few years ago, at least around here. We had a huge rivalry game where a similar play occured. A1 threw a bullet pass that B2 deflected (off his noggin) and into the basket. There was about 5 sec. left in the game. And if the basket counted A would have been up 1. Crew Chief said don't count it, U1 said count it, U2 said, "I'm going with the crew chief simply because if we are wrong, I can blame the crew chief!!" (He no longer works in our association!)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Judtech

A1 threw a bullet pass that B2 deflected (off his noggin) and into the basket. There was about 5 sec. left in the game. Crew Chief said don't count it.

Why not count it? A live ball went into the basket. In this case you don't have any complicating factors like the the horn sounding to end the period, or a foul. This is almost about as simple as a play involving the ball going into the wrong basket that you can get. It would count at either end of the court, no matter who's head the ball deflected off of. Not pretty, but count the goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7dAmWnRlFY

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Judtech

A1 threw a bullet pass that deflected off his noggin ...

YouTube - basketball kid hit in head

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's all right. I believe that JR has some insightful opinions about that blue text. Perhaps he will remind us of them.

OK.

Treat everything posted byJudtech as being in blue text. Especially his answers to rules questions. That works for me.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Why not count it? A live ball went into the basket. In this case you don't have any complicating factors like the the horn sounding to end the period, or a foul. This is almost about as simple as a play involving the ball going into the wrong basket that you can get. It would count at either end of the court, no matter who's head the ball deflected off of. Not pretty, but count the goal.

YouTube - basketball shot off the head

They did NOT count it. The R was a very veteran official,and IMO has an oversized ego, the U1 was a younger guy and a college official and the U2 was a "crusty verteran". The U1 pointed out that there was time on the clock and no "extenuating circumstances". The R came up with a legal shot attempt line of reasoning, before pulling out the "I've done this longer than you, don't question me card" and waving off the bucket. As the U1 is a friend of mine, I am glad to see that his career has moved up as he has gotten a larger college schedule (which also means I can save on gas by carpooling!!!). I am also glad to see that the R has been picked up and dropped by 3 seperate college leagues.

JR Wouldn't that make a need for TWO types of blue font?!?!? And I will put my rules knowledge up against your reading comprehension any day of the week! (Except for this coming Thursday, I have a full schedule!!)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

They did NOT count it. The R was a very veteran official,and IMO has an oversized ego, the U1 was a younger guy and a college official and the U2 was a "crusty verteran". The U1 pointed out that there was time on the clock and no "extenuating circumstances". The R came up with a legal shot attempt line of reasoning, before pulling out the "I've done this longer than you, don't question me card" and waving off the bucket. As the U1 is a friend of mine, I am glad to see that his career has moved up as he has gotten a larger college schedule (which also means I can save on gas by carpooling!!!). I am also glad to see that the R has been picked up and dropped by 3 seperate college leagues.

That's not a controversy, the R kicked it and was an a$$ in the process. To me, for it to be controversy he'd have had to at least have some valid reasoning.

[Judtech]

You know how associations are, when a mistake like this is made, especially by one of the 'higher ups' it becomes 'controversial'. Some people call it politics, but the bottom line, like most associations at any level, gossip is king and speed dials are often used. To paraphrase " The first step to recovery is admitting you made a mistake"? Do everything you can not to, but if you kick a call, own it, learn from it and move on. IMO he was embarrased that he made a mistake, didn't want to be show up by a 'young buck', and didn't want to admit he was wrong. Didn't like how it was handled, but hey, no one asked me!! I just yelled "Help, I'm being repressed"!!

[bainsey]

Okay, let's take it a step further...

Last-second rebounding fury toward Team A's basket...

*A-1 taps the ball, which goes off B-2's head, buzzer sounds, ball goes in.
*B-1 taps the ball, which goes off A-1's head, buzzer sounds, ball goes in.

Basket good in the first example, no good in the second?

[Adam]

Is A1's tap a tap for goal, or is he just flailing at the ball? Sounds like he's probably trying for goal with a tap, so count it.
Correct on the 2nd, no good.

[Nevadaref]

Had Judtech's situation been over whether the goal should be worth 2 or 3 points, then I could understand, but for an official to completely discount the goal simply because it deflected in off the opposing team is insane.

In all of his many years of experience has he never seen a player put the ball in the wrong basket? Perhaps he canceled all of those as well.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, let's take it a step further...

Last-second rebounding fury toward Team A's basket...

*A-1 taps the ball, which goes off B-2's head, buzzer sounds, ball goes in.
*B-1 taps the ball, which goes off A-1's head, buzzer sounds, ball goes in.

Basket good in the first example, no good in the second?

Presumably, it goes off the players head in each case while coming down after the tap. If so, no goal in either case. A1's try ended when it passed back below the rim (if it ever made it above the rim) and B-1's is not even a try. If A1's tap hit B2's head on the way up, B2 must be one very tall person.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Presuably, it goes off the players head in each case while coming down after the tap. If so, no goal in either case. A1's try ended when it passed back below the rim (if it ever made it above the rim) and B-1's is not even a try. If A1's tap hit B2's head on the way up, B2 must be one very tall person or

Woah woah woah . . . What are we saying here. That McDonalds lied to an entire generation of children. That Larry and Micheal bouncing balls over bridges, off ceilings, heads, and anything else they could find for the last burger were not shot attempts.

So not only do they make the world fatter, they are encouraging not really shooting shots despite them going in???