Intentional or excessive intentional

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I disagree. When you call it intentional, the players will think twice before being so careless again. It's a dangerous play and should be discouraged; more importantly, the rules call for it.

We can agree to disagree here.

I understand what you are saying and maybe I'm not being clear. There are lots of these situations where I would and have called excessive just not if contact is in course of a regular sort of play on the ball that ends up badly because it was a breakaway.

If the offense goes to the rim hard and defense takes a charge, most times I'm no calling the offensive player for an intentional. Despite the fact they may not have slowed up, tried to avoid it and knowing both players hit the floor hard I still don't think its intentional. Its not excessive, just a tough basketball play. By that same token a defender leaving their feet trying to make a play to stop a shot that results in a foul in the normal course of play (even knowing it could be ugly) and still making the tough play. Play on.

Again if they are playing the body and not the ball or clearly going for a foul to bust the play up then I can move onto excessive when they spill everywhere. If you get tighter then that every offensive player in every game should go to the rim hard and layout as much as possible so that any arm contact at all drives them to floor and can be construed as dangerous.

It is a judgement call though and every situation is unique.

[Adam]

I don't think we're that far apart. It's not that I'm going to rule normal arm contact intentional just because the shooter lands on his arse. That said, there are times when the landing can help determine just how hard the contact was, and the result isn't always irrelevant. I'm talking about a hard rake across the arms that knocks a player into the following week. Normally, however, it's not solely arm to arm contact involved here. Typically, body contact is required for this sort of foul.

[Back In The Saddle]

Two thoughts:

1. Game control. If the contact is significant to warrant consideration for excessive contact and it "turns up the heat" unnecessarily, if there's no good reason for it, if the outcome is already decided, if there's a history going on...I'm calling it intentional to send a clear message.

2. We call lots of fouls where there is clean contact with the ball. The ball is not the only consideration. And if the defender can't make that clean play on the ball without creating excessive contact...it should be called.

[Nevadaref]

Sounds as if the OP was at a college camp. Hence, the evaluator is likely far more familiar with NCAA directives than those of the NFHS.

A couple of years ago the NCAA put an emphasis on protecting airborne players, especially those going up for dunks and lay-ups. The instruction was basically to deem more of the plays in which these players were fouled to be intentional or flagrant.

It seems that this is the perspective from which the evaluator is speaking.