spurned rules changes

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Very well. So, do the seven states that have a shot clock (Oregon and Maryland, girls only; Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, North Dakota, and California, both genders) have their respective basketball rule books? Or, do they pick-and-choose certain NFHS rules as they see fit?

Oregon does not and has never had a shot clock for either boys or girls.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Oregon does not and has never had a shot clock for either boys or girls.

I thought that too, Camron, when I read his post and believe that he meant to write Washington in that location, since the shot clock for girls in that state preceded the adoption of one for the boys.

However, since I wasn't certain if I was the one who was mixing up the those two states, I didn't mention it and left the correcting to someone such as yourself from the Portland area. I know that we have a number of people on this site from that area and was sure that we'd get a clarification soon.

[bainsey]

I appreciate the clarity as to which states have what.

There's always a cry for a shot clock here in Maine, particularly when a team plays stall ball in the high school tournaments. If it's true that such a move would cause consequences from the NFHS, then it sounds like it just won't happen.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I appreciate the clarity as to which states have what.

There's always a cry for a shot clock here in Maine, particularly when a team plays stall ball in the high school tournaments. If it's true that such a move would cause consequences from the NFHS, then it sounds like it just won't happen.

I think it's only a matter of time before the NFHS makes the allowance for it.

The occurrance of the stall ball technique is so rare, IMO, that it hardly warrants the expense and trouble of such a rule change. Not that a shot clock isn't a good idea (I really don't have a strong opinion), but the fear of stall ball really isn't that strong an argument.

[REFANDUMP]

South Dakota uses a shot clock in it's "AA" (highest) class for both boys and girls. There have been efforts to implement it in the lower classes, but they have failed to this point.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think it's only a matter of time before the NFHS makes the allowance for it.

The occurrance of the stall ball technique is so rare, IMO, that it hardly warrants the expense and trouble of such a rule change. Not that a shot clock isn't a good idea (I really don't have a strong opinion), but the fear of stall ball really isn't that strong an argument.

I don't think fear of stall ball in itself is the best reason but it is one that is real. Having played, coached and now occaisionally reffing in the state of Maine it is very real and much more common then I've seen other places without one.

You can go to summer leagues and see teams running the old four corners and stalling the ball in 8-2 games for the from the 2nd quarter on. In the lower classifications at the high school state tournament, its basically a forgone conclusion anybody up by more than three hoops is not going to shoot it in the 4th quarter unless you make them.

Since I ref with a 24 second shot clock almost all the time, having no shot clock and reffing these games seems like death to me.

[Mark Padgett]

If the NF mandates a shot clock in the next few years, you can bet virtually every state assn. will ignore the mandate. I don't think there's a school board out there that has shot clocks on it's list of the top 1000 things on which to spend money.

I think the only way schools would install shot clocks would be if a corporate sponsor donates the clocks and pays for the installation. Phil Knight - are you listening?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Since I ref with a 24 second shot clock almost all the time, having no shot clock and reffing these games seems like death to me.

Here's my concern: If you get a shot clock for every varsity, JV, and freshmen game (they'd likely pass on middle schools), you'd be dealing with a lot more coaching complaints and table errors than time expirations.

"Why was/wasn't the clock reset? They did/didn't get possession of the ball!"

For all of the complaining about stall ball, there'd be a lot more complaining about more serious issues, like errors that could actually affect a game.

By the way, Panther, I'm guessing you've been to the Bangor Auditorium, and you're right. Stall ball indeed happens, but I always say it takes two teams to stall. If you don't want your opponent to stall, go get the ball. You might just come up with it.

[Judtech]

"Stall Ball" = Easy money. Clock doesn't stop, very few fouls and home early!!

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Here's my concern: If you get a shot clock for every varsity, JV, and freshmen game (they'd likely pass on middle schools), you'd be dealing with a lot more coaching complaints and table errors than time expirations.

"Why was/wasn't the clock reset? They did/didn't get possession of the ball!"

For all of the complaining about stall ball, there'd be a lot more complaining about more serious issues, like errors that could actually affect a game.

By the way, Panther, I'm guessing you've been to the Bangor Auditorium, and you're right. Stall ball indeed happens, but I always say it takes two teams to stall. If you don't want your opponent to stall, go get the ball. You might just come up with it.

Disagree... Even at freshmen games with a "bad" table crew, there are usually a maximum of 4-5 corrections / questions in a game. Once everybody gets the hang of it, which may take longer/shorter for different people, it's really not that hard.

And once officials get the hang of it and are watching for the right things, it only takes 5 seconds to walk/talk to the table and say "Please set the shot clock to [insert number] seconds." I think that guys in non-shot clock states who made the jump to NCAA would agree with that. And again, this does not happen very often in a 32/40 minute game.