spurned rules changes

[bainsey]

I appreciate the clarity as to which states have what.

There's always a cry for a shot clock here in Maine, particularly when a team plays stall ball in the high school tournaments. If it's true that such a move would cause consequences from the NFHS, then it sounds like it just won't happen.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I appreciate the clarity as to which states have what.

There's always a cry for a shot clock here in Maine, particularly when a team plays stall ball in the high school tournaments. If it's true that such a move would cause consequences from the NFHS, then it sounds like it just won't happen.

I think it's only a matter of time before the NFHS makes the allowance for it.

The occurrance of the stall ball technique is so rare, IMO, that it hardly warrants the expense and trouble of such a rule change. Not that a shot clock isn't a good idea (I really don't have a strong opinion), but the fear of stall ball really isn't that strong an argument.

[REFANDUMP]

South Dakota uses a shot clock in it's "AA" (highest) class for both boys and girls. There have been efforts to implement it in the lower classes, but they have failed to this point.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think it's only a matter of time before the NFHS makes the allowance for it.

The occurrance of the stall ball technique is so rare, IMO, that it hardly warrants the expense and trouble of such a rule change. Not that a shot clock isn't a good idea (I really don't have a strong opinion), but the fear of stall ball really isn't that strong an argument.

I don't think fear of stall ball in itself is the best reason but it is one that is real. Having played, coached and now occaisionally reffing in the state of Maine it is very real and much more common then I've seen other places without one.

You can go to summer leagues and see teams running the old four corners and stalling the ball in 8-2 games for the from the 2nd quarter on. In the lower classifications at the high school state tournament, its basically a forgone conclusion anybody up by more than three hoops is not going to shoot it in the 4th quarter unless you make them.

Since I ref with a 24 second shot clock almost all the time, having no shot clock and reffing these games seems like death to me.

[Mark Padgett]

If the NF mandates a shot clock in the next few years, you can bet virtually every state assn. will ignore the mandate. I don't think there's a school board out there that has shot clocks on it's list of the top 1000 things on which to spend money.

I think the only way schools would install shot clocks would be if a corporate sponsor donates the clocks and pays for the installation. Phil Knight - are you listening?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Since I ref with a 24 second shot clock almost all the time, having no shot clock and reffing these games seems like death to me.

Here's my concern: If you get a shot clock for every varsity, JV, and freshmen game (they'd likely pass on middle schools), you'd be dealing with a lot more coaching complaints and table errors than time expirations.

"Why was/wasn't the clock reset? They did/didn't get possession of the ball!"

For all of the complaining about stall ball, there'd be a lot more complaining about more serious issues, like errors that could actually affect a game.

By the way, Panther, I'm guessing you've been to the Bangor Auditorium, and you're right. Stall ball indeed happens, but I always say it takes two teams to stall. If you don't want your opponent to stall, go get the ball. You might just come up with it.

[Judtech]

"Stall Ball" = Easy money. Clock doesn't stop, very few fouls and home early!!

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Here's my concern: If you get a shot clock for every varsity, JV, and freshmen game (they'd likely pass on middle schools), you'd be dealing with a lot more coaching complaints and table errors than time expirations.

"Why was/wasn't the clock reset? They did/didn't get possession of the ball!"

For all of the complaining about stall ball, there'd be a lot more complaining about more serious issues, like errors that could actually affect a game.

By the way, Panther, I'm guessing you've been to the Bangor Auditorium, and you're right. Stall ball indeed happens, but I always say it takes two teams to stall. If you don't want your opponent to stall, go get the ball. You might just come up with it.

Disagree... Even at freshmen games with a "bad" table crew, there are usually a maximum of 4-5 corrections / questions in a game. Once everybody gets the hang of it, which may take longer/shorter for different people, it's really not that hard.

And once officials get the hang of it and are watching for the right things, it only takes 5 seconds to walk/talk to the table and say "Please set the shot clock to [insert number] seconds." I think that guys in non-shot clock states who made the jump to NCAA would agree with that. And again, this does not happen very often in a 32/40 minute game.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Judtech

"Stall Ball" = Easy money. Clock doesn't stop, very few fouls and home early!!

I agree. I don't see the problem. I once had the pleasure of calling in the final score to the local radio station after a "stall ball" game and the lady on the phone even asked, "You sure this isn't a halftime score?" (The score was something like 24-18 for varsity boys.)

The other team couldn't/wouldn't come out and guard the guys holding the ball by the division line. Their fans were booing and saying bad words, but that's all the players had to do. Step up and play defense.

I just don't see the need for a shot clock in high school as long as both teams are allowed to play defense.

[mkuk]

I honestly would like to see the 16 or 18 minute halves. A lot of shoot-outs during the summer use a 20 minute (running clock) half. The end of a quarter can be total game flow breaker, if you know what I mean!

[paulsonj72]

Originally Posted by mkuk

I honestly would like to see the 16 or 18 minute halves. A lot of shoot-outs during the summer use a 20 minute (running clock) half. The end of a quarter can be total game flow breaker, if you know what I mean!

Just found this thread(just joined) but MN has playing with 18:00 halves since the 2006-2007 school year. Sub varsity games are also played in halves. 14 or 16 minute is the most popular. JH games are usually 12 mn halves.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

We use the NFHS rulebook with appropriate modifications for California-

1600. GIRLS MODIFICATION
The National Federation Basketball Rules shall be modified for girls basketball as follows:
A. Utilization of 30-second shot clock.
B. Utilization of midcourt line.
C. No 10-second rule in backcourt.
D. Utilization of five-second count for holding the ball only.

1601. BOYS MODIFICATION
The National Federation Basketball Rules shall be modified for boys basketball as follows:
A. Utilization of a 35-second shot clock.

1602. UNIFORMS
The National Federation boys and girls uniform rules shall be waived to allow for the wearing of a shirt with diagonal or tailed lettering at the non-varsity level.

1607. MERCY RULE
When at the conclusion of the third quarter, or any point thereafter, if there is a point differential of 40 or
more points, a
running clock shall be instituted for the remainder of the game, regardless of the score. This applies to all
levels of play.
(ApprovedMay 2004 Federated Council)

SCalScoreKeeper:

When did the CIF adopt the shot clock for boys' basketball?

MTD, Sr.

[nine01c]

I have lived and worked in a state that uses the shot clock and one that does not. I agree with NFHS, it is not necessary in the high school game. It causes delays while officials and table crews discuss and make corrections when the shot clock is not operated properly which happens a lot. Stall ball is fine with me, if they want to keep the game moving, play defence within 6 feet.