Defensive Blind Screen?

[KCRef]

B1 scores a basket, and A1 throws in to A2. A5 is jogging up the court (still in his backcourt), looking back at his teammate with the ball. B5 is facing A5, and has obtained a LGP with plenty of steps infront of A5. A5 collides into B5, and they both go down. Is there any foul? I say no.

I believe that it would be similar to when the offense sets a blind screen for his teammate that has the ball. If the defense never sees the screen, then there is no foul when they collide.

[Pantherdreams]

I think I would have to take this on a case by case basis but my first instinct is I've gotta call something here if it in anyway effects the ongoing play.

Its tough for me to no call a player holding their ground in the middle of the floor legally so no one can come through getting run over by the offense who had plenty of time and space to avoid them.

I'm interested on other people's take on this.

[Adam]

By rule, as long as the screened player stops or attempts to stop upon contact, the contact is to be ruled incidental. The screener is to expect contact, and the contact may be severe.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

By rule, as long as the screened player stops or attempts to stop upon contact, the contact is to be ruled incidental. The screener is to expect contact, and the contact may be severe.

+1

The intent of the defender setting the screen has been met. Whether either or both player subsequently goes down isn't relevant as long as the criteria for a legal screen were met.

You need illegal contact to have a foul.

[vbzebra]

Originally Posted by KCRef

B1 scores a basket, and A1 throws in to A2. A5 is jogging up the court (still in his backcourt), looking back at his teammate with the ball. B5 is facing A5, and has obtained a LGP with plenty of steps infront of A5. A5 collides into B5, and they both go down. Is there any foul? I say no.

I believe that it would be similar to when the offense sets a blind screen for his teammate that has the ball. If the defense never sees the screen, then there is no foul when they collide.

LGP and blind screen are two different situations. in the OP, B5 has obtained LGP in front of A5. Contact. Down goes B5. I've got a TC foul on A5. B's ball at spot nearest foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

LGP and blind screen are two different situations. in the OP, B5 has obtained LGP in front of A5. Contact. Down goes B5. I've got a TC foul on A5. B's ball at spot nearest foul.

So you're saying screening rules apply only to the offense?
Basically, when screening/guarding a player without the ball, screening rules apply.

[vbzebra]

crap, now I'M confused

When guarding a player without the ball, time and distance are a factor for LGP, and based on OP, guard had LGP with plenty of time and space for A5 to move out of the way. I don't think we can penalize B5 with a block/no call for A5 crashing into him when A5 has his head turned. I would have a TC foul on A5 b/c B5 established LGP with enough time/distance for A5 to move, but A5 did not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

crap, now I'M confused

When guarding a player without the ball, time and distance are a factor for LGP, and based on OP, guard had LGP with plenty of time and space for A5 to move out of the way. I don't think we can penalize B5 with a block/no call for A5 crashing into him when A5 has his head turned. I would have a TC foul on A5 b/c B5 established LGP with enough time/distance for A5 to move, but A5 did not.

It's a screen, so rule 4-40-7 is the one to look at here.

[vbzebra]

but isn't the screenER moving here, not the screenEE? A blind screen is when the screenER is stationary and the screenEE is moving backwards, right? Here, the defender is stationary, and the screenER is moving blindly.

By the way, who's on first?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by KCRef

B1 scores a basket, and A1 throws in to A2. A5 is jogging up the court (still in his backcourt), looking back at his teammate with the ball. B5 is facing A5, and has obtained a LGP with plenty of steps infront of A5. A5 collides into B5, and they both go down. Is there any foul? I say no.

I believe that it would be similar to when the offense sets a blind screen for his teammate that has the ball. If the defense never sees the screen, then there is no foul when they collide.

Why are you characterizing this as a screen? Team A has the ball. B5 has obtained LGP against A5 who is a moving player without the basketball. Why wouldn't you consider this to be guarding and apply the rules for that?

Looked at in that manner this would be a charging foul for displacing the defensive player from his legally obtained spot on the floor.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by KCRef

B1 scores a basket, and A1 throws in to A2. A5 is jogging up the court (still in his backcourt), looking back at his teammate with the ball. B5 is facing A5, and has obtained a LGP with plenty of steps infront of A5. A5 collides into B5, and they both go down. Is there any foul? I say no.

I believe that it would be similar to when the offense sets a blind screen for his teammate that has the ball. If the defense never sees the screen, then there is no foul when they collide.

1) We all know that the guarding rule applies only to the five defensive players.

2) We all know that the screening rule apples to all ten players (both offensive (including the player in control of the ball) and defensive players).

3) The play in the OP is a conundrum (boy, I hope I spelled that correctly, ) because the official has to decide which B5 did: (a) Did B5 obtain (NFHS)/established (NCAA and FIBA) a LGP, or (b) Did B5 set a legal blind screen?

4) The answer to both items in (3) is YES. So what do we do?

5) In this play I am inclined to rule LGP, because B5 was facing A5. Remember to obtain/establish a LGP, the defender must be facing the offensive player, while in setting a screen the screener does NOT have to be facing the screenee (I hope I spelled this correctly too, ). And NFHS Casebook Play 10.6.11 Situation D supports my position.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

NFHS Casebook Play 10.6.11 Situation D supports my position.

10.6.11 SITUATION D: A1 is running toward A’s goal but is looking back to
receive a pass. B1 takes a position in the path of A1 while A1 is 10 feet away from
B1. (a) A1 runs into B1 before receiving the ball; or (b) A1 receives the ball and
before taking a step contacts B1. RULING: In both (a) and (b), A1 is responsible
for contact. In (a), B1’s position is legal if A1 has been given two strides prior to
contact. In (b), since the position of B1 is legal when A1 has the ball, the contact
is charging by A1. (4-40)

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The play in the OP is a conundrum (boy, I hope I spelled that correctly, )

Indeed you did, sir. If there's ever any question about a word's spelling, I find the easiest thing to do is open another tab and go to dictionary.com.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Indeed you did, sir. If there's ever any question about a word's spelling, I find the easiest thing to do is open another tab and go to dictionary.com.

It is even easier, just click the spell check button in top right of the post entry form. (You may have to install ieSpell before it will show or will work...and you have to use IE.)

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

and you have to use IE.)

I'd rather be permanently relegated to officiating 3rd grade B league games