Blind screen help

[kycat1]

Am I wrong or right?

Player A1 has ball top of key with Player B1 guarding. Player A2 comes up right behind B1 to set a screen for A1. A1 breaks for basket and B1 tries to go with A1 but is impeded by the blind screen. No big contact but small B1 is stopped by bigger A2 being right behind him. I call an illegal screen on A2 (did not give 1 normal step since it was a blind screen) and give the ball to Team B.

At half time, my partners say that I should not have called a foul on A2 because A2 went right up to B1 and made slight contact so therefore B1 "knew" he was being screen by A2 because he could feel his body on his back. Since he knew he was there, it was now B1's responsibility to go around A2 without making hard contact.

I think a blind screen from behind wheter or not you touch the player is still a blind screen and you must give that 1 normal step.

Right or wrong? I can find nothing in the case book (4.40) about screening.

[referee99]

Rule 4-40-4 covers this pretty well, methinks.

When screening a stationary opponent from behind (outside the visual field), the screener must allow the opponent one normal step backward without contact.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by kycat1

Am I wrong or right?

I think you are correct.

[jdmara]

I would agree with you. The screener should allow one normal step back without contact

-Josh

[deecee]

Originally Posted by kycat1

I think a blind screen from behind wheter or not you touch the player is still a blind screen and you must give that 1 normal step.

Right or wrong? I can find nothing in the case book (4.40) about screening.

Contact is necessary for a foul to be called however.

[chartrusepengui]

key word phrase is visual field. Nothing is said about "feeling" the defender and it wouldn't matter anyway - if they are that close they have not given the required 1 step.

[dbking]

Originally Posted by kycat1

Am I wrong or right?

Player A1 has ball top of key with Player B1 guarding. Player A2 comes up right behind B1 to set a screen for A1. A1 breaks for basket and B1 tries to go with A1 but is impeded by the blind screen. No big contact but small B1 is stopped by bigger A2 being right behind him. I call an illegal screen on A2 (did not give 1 normal step since it was a blind screen) and give the ball to Team B.

At half time, my partners say that I should not have called a foul on A2 because A2 went right up to B1 and made slight contact so therefore B1 "knew" he was being screen by A2 because he could feel his body on his back. Since he knew he was there, it was now B1's responsibility to go around A2 without making hard contact.

I think a blind screen from behind wheter or not you touch the player is still a blind screen and you must give that 1 normal step.

Right or wrong? I can find nothing in the case book (4.40) about screening.

I have an old rule beside computer. I think it is still the same.

10-6-3a a player who screeens shall not when he/she is outside the visual field of a stationary opponent, take a position closer than a normal step from the opponent.

[deecee]

I thought the blind screening principle was for screens away from the ball? Usually on ball screens that are blind that catch the defender off guard are during transition. The screen described here is only blind in that the defender cannot see the player but he 100% knows he is there. This sounds like a no call to me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

I thought the blind screening principle was for screens away from the ball?

Based on what rule?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by deecee

I thought the blind screening principle was for screens away from the ball? Usually on ball screens that are blind that catch the defender off guard are during transition. The screen described here is only blind in that the defender cannot see the player but he 100% knows he is there. This sounds like a no call to me.

The rule is for all blind screens

-Josh

[deecee]

Dont have my book handy but i remember this discussion in our meetings this year, and thats what was taken away from that day's meeting. I could be wrong, its happened before.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Dont have my book handy but i remember this discussion in our meetings this year, and thats what was taken away from that day's meeting. I could be wrong, its happened before.

Ah, now you're just teasing Nevadaref.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Ah, now you're just teasing Nevadaref.

Yeah, thats a tough thing to do.

[M&M Guy]

Well, deecee may have a point, but the difference might be in the terminology used. It is true a screen must allow for time and distance, based on moving or stationary, blind or withing the visual field of the opponent. But how many defenders do you know set a screen behind a player with the ball? Wouldn't it be more likely they are guarding that player, not screening that player? If that's the case, then guarding principles apply, so that the defender could be right behind the stationary player with the ball, and time and distance would not be a factor.

[ranjo]

Originally Posted by kycat1

Am I wrong or right?

Player A1 has ball top of key with Player B1 guarding. Player A2 comes up right behind B1 to set a screen for A1. A1 breaks for basket and B1 tries to go with A1 but is impeded by the blind screen. No big contact but small B1 is stopped by bigger A2 being right behind him. I call an illegal screen on A2 (did not give 1 normal step since it was a blind screen) and give the ball to Team B.

I had a similar play last week, and still don't know 100% if I got it right or not. In my case (I was trail in 3 man), B1 plowed thru the screen, knocking A2 to the floor. I had bodies on the floor and called B1 for a push. Coach asks me to explain why B1 is charged with a foul, because A2 set a blind screen. I have to tell her, "Coach, you have made a very good point, and I will discuss it with my partners at half time to see what they saw on the play". Only one partner actually saw the play and tended to agree with the coach that the screen was legal and B1 never saw it.

NOTE: To all rookies - This is why your mentors keep telling you to "see the whole play from start to finish". Because I didn't see the whole play, which included the screeners, from start to finish, I probably made an incorrect call by blowing my whistle on contact alone.